The use of make, have and get

Question

HiCould you please shed some light on these sentences? Do they carry the same meaning? The teacher made us write an essay on the Internet. The teacher got us to write an essay on the Internet. The teacher had us write an essay on the Internet. The teacher had us writing an essay on the Internet.Thanks,Tom

CalifJim · Accepted Answer

Mr. TomCould you please shed some light on these sentences? Do they carry the same meaning?

The teacher made us write an essay on the Internet.

The teacher got us to write an essay on the Internet.

The teacher had us write an essay on the Internet.

The teacher had us writing an essay on the Internet.

They are close in meaning, but not exactly the same.

When the teacher made you write an essay, the teacher commanded you to do so. The teacher ordered you to do so. You might have been in trouble if you did not obey. The teacher might even have threatened you with punishment if you did not obey.

When the teacher had you write an essay, the teacher assigned you the task of writing the essay. It was expected that you would do it.

When the teacher got you to write an essay, the teacher may have coaxed, wheedled, begged, or pleaded for you to do so. The teacher may have simply asked you to write the essay, and you did. The teacher may have commanded you to write the essay, and you did. The teacher may have paid you to write the essay, and you did. The teacher may have tricked you into writing the essay. In short, the teacher did something that successfully resulted in your writing the essay. The exact method is not stated. The main meaning is that the teacher succeeded in his or her efforts to influence your behavior.

When the teacher had you writing an essay, the teacher was at that moment probably busy supervising you and helping you as you worked on the task of writing the essay that the teacher had assigned.

CJ

Jason.oconal · Answer

The final sentence: 'The teacher had us writing an essay ...' is a difficult one and I'm not sure that I agree with your analysis of it. Had is, of course, the past tense form of to have. If I have someone writing a letter, it seems to me that someone is currently writing a letter for me (by my instruction, suggestion, etc.) or that someone is using my space to write a letter. Thus, if I had someone writing a letter, it seems that someone was previously writing a letter for me or using my space. For example, I had someone writing a letter out the back, but I think he's gone now, so you're welcome to use the desk, or I had someone writing a letter to Mr. Williams, but I don't think he finished. It is also difficult to justify writing I had someone writing a letter, so there is no need for you to write one instead of I had someone write a letter already, so there is no need ..., so I can really only justify it in the sense of space usage or an unfinished letter attempt.

CalifJim · Answer

jason.oconalI'm not sure that I agree with your analysis of it.

It's not an analysis. It's one possible paraphrase specific to the situation described. So do you think had means had (someone) occupied?

The teacher had us [occupied / busy] writing an essay?
The teacher arranged for us to be busy at the task of writing an essay?

That's another possible paraphrase I suppose.
_____________

But what are we going to do with this?

After many weeks of patient coaxing, Laura finally had the squirrel eating out of her hand.

Not much like having someone writing a letter out back, is it? Here there's the suggestion of success after repeated effort, which is not present in many other examples of had X Y-ing.

CJ

Jason.oconal · Answer

The sentence you gave -- 'After many weeks of patient coaxing, Laura finally had the squirrel eating out of her hand' -- does actually fit my original paraphrase as you put it where had meant achieved the result (someone writing a letter, the squirrel eating out of her hand) by instruction, suggestion, coaxing (I didn't mention coaxing, but it is no stretch), etc.

My original point was that I don't think the phrase the teacher had me writing a letter implies supervision or help.

Finally, if you were not analysing the sentences, what were you doing?

I understand that we are becoming less and less helpful to the original poster, but I do find this sort of discussion rather interesting.

CalifJim · Answer

jason.oconalMy original point was that I don't think the phrase the teacher had me writing a letter implies supervision or help.

Got it. It probably doesn't imply that. Maybe I'll go back and edit that reply.

Actually, I changed my mind. Editing it now will make this discussion incomprehensible.

Better yet, since you have a better idea, you finish the sentence the way you think it should be done for the original poster:

When the teacher had you writing an essay, the teacher ...

CJ

Jason.oconal · Answer

I think The teacher had us writing an essay means We were writing an essay at the teacher's request (suggestion, etc.). It says nothing about whether we finished the essay just that, at some point in the past, the teacher managed to engage us in the exercise of writing an essay.

Mr. Tom · Answer

Many thank, CJ and Jason for the detailed replies.

So, in a nutshell, had someone do something and had someone doing something are the same?

Please tell me, which of my original sentences is a native speaker most likely to use?

Also, I am interested in knowing if native students of middle or secondary classes would be familiar with the subtle differences between make, have, get, CJ and Jason have discussed.

Please see and tell me the difference.

Every time I visit her, she has me read the same story to her.

Every time I visit her, she has me reading the same story to her.

Thanks,

Tom

CalifJim · Answer

Mr. TomSo, in a nutshell, had someone do something and had someone doing something are the same?

No. I take the first to mean the task is complete, the second to mean the task was in progress.

Mr. TomPlease tell me, which of my original sentences is a native speaker most likely to use?

Each has a slightly different meaning. A native speaker might use any one of those sentences.

Mr. TomI am interested in knowing if native students of middle or secondary classes would be familiar with the subtle differences between make, have, get, CJ and Jason have discussed.

Yes. Certainly. They would not be able to explain the subtleties in any detail -- nor would adults -- but they certainly know the differences and use them appropriately in conversation. These are all very commonly used patterns.

Mr. TomEvery time I visit her, she has me read the same story to her.

Every time I visit her, she has me reading the same story to her.

The first is more appropriate because of "every time I visit". The non-continuous form (read) is appropriate for habits. I would interpret the use of the second (with reading) as a possible sign of exasperation. (I'm sick and tired of reading that story to her.)

The difference between continuous and non-continuous forms is the same in these expressions as it is anywhere else. The fact that they occur with the idiom to have someone (do / doing) something doesn't change that.

CJ

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