The use of for...to structures

Question

Hi,I am studying the use of for...to.. structures which are very common in English. But I am not sure whether I can always use for, for example, after adjectives if there are alreadya preposition expressing the same idea. Like in the following example:It's typical for women to fantasize about marriage.It's typical of women to fantasize about marriage.Which one is correct or both?Thanks

Avangi · Accepted Answer

They're both fine. You're using two slightly different senses of "typical," if I'm not mistaken.

It is typical [behavior] for women to fantasize about marriage. I think here it means typical given a whole scenario or situation. That is, it's typical for something to happen in a certain way. It's typical for men and women to argue. You could not express this same thought by substituting "of." (It's an example of typical behavior for men and women to argue.) I think the "of" sense is more pure, less corrupt, at least in terms of the way I think of "typical." I think "typical for" means about the same as "not unusual for." At least, people seem to use it that way.

The expression "typical of" usually has a very specific focus on the term which follows. X is typical of cats. Y is typical of dogs. A is typical of Fords. B is typical of Toyotas.

You could say "It's typical of the mixture of oil and water to separate / that it separates." You could not say, "It's typical of oil and water to separate when mixed." (I suppose you could argue that "mixture" is understood.)
"For" would work in both of these examples.

Edit. I didn't mean to imply that a given characteristic shouldn't be called typical of multiple objects taken separately: "It's typical of apples and oranges to have a round shape." But I don't think you should say "It's typical of apples and oranges not to have the same color." (But "for" would be okay.)

Sorry to go so far afield.

CalifJim · Answer

EagerSeeker I am not sure whether I can always use for, for example, after adjectives if there ~~are~~ is already
a preposition expressing the same idea.

There are many cases where you cannot use for, and this is one of them. As I understand it, you are suggesting:

*It's typical of for women to fantasize about marriage.

That's clearly wrong.

CJ

EagerSeeker · Answer

CalifJim
EagerSeeker I am not sure whether I can always use for, for example, after adjectives if there ~~are~~ is already
a preposition expressing the same idea.
There are many cases where you cannot use for, and this is one of them. As I understand it, you are suggesting:

*It's typical of for women to fantasize about marriage.

That's clearly wrong.

CJ

No, I didn't mean of and for in the same sentence. Just how they are used separately in different sentences with the same kind of meaning.
Thanks for the correction to my previous post, an automated spelling and grammar check is always welcome.

AvangiThey're both fine. You're using two slightly different senses of "typical," if I'm not mistaken.

It is typical [behavior] for women to fantasize about marriage. I think here it means typical given a whole scenario or situation. That is, it's typical for something to happen in a certain way. It's typical for men and women to argue. You could not express this same thought by substituting "of." (It's an example of typical behavior for men and women to argue.) I think the "of" sense is more pure, less corrupt, at least in terms of the way I think of "typical." I think "typical for" means about the same as "not unusual for." At least, people seem to use it that way.

I think I understand what you mean, especially by that "more pure" and "less corrupt". In my own language I can also express the same thing in two ways with a slight difference. However, I think I prefer the use of for in general, but, for example, "it's so typical of him to do something like that" tastes somehow better than "it's so typical for him to do something like that". Maybe I shouldn't think about this in too great detail so I won't go crazy.

Avangi · Answer

I think we're on the same page. "It's so typical of him" means "this is one of his characteristics." To use "for" in this case would be like saying, "having 29 days is typical for February's in years divisible by four." Probably many people would say it, but it doesn't seem right. "It's typical for February's in New England to have some very cold days," is not offensive.

I think people who use them interchangeably have never needed to use "typical" in a technical sense.

Anonymous · Answer

It's typical for women to fantasize about marriage ..This one is correct

The use of for...to structures

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