the usage of 'since'

Question

Hello. I was wondering if these sentences are of different meanings:
(1) It's been a long time since he lived in New York.
(2) It;s been a long time since he has lived in New York.
I think (1) indicates he has been away from NY for a long time, while (2) suggests he lived in NY for a long time, is that right?
Also, I wondered if those sentences are grammatically correct:
(1) Our spirit is highly lifted since he has joined the team.
(2)it's been a long time since you've kissed your dear children good night.

GPY · Accepted Answer

Jing JiewuI think (1) indicates he has been away from NY for a long time, while (2) suggests he lived in NY for a long time, is that right?

No, they both mean that he has been away from NY for a long time.

Jing Jiewu(1) Our spirit is highly lifted since he has joined the team.

Various aspects of this don't sound quite right. I suggest:

Our spirits have been greatly lifted since he joined the team.

Jing Jiewu(2)it's been a long time since you've kissed your dear children good night.

Apart from the missing capital letter at the start of the sentence, this one is OK.

Jing Jiewu · Answer

GPYNo, they both mean that he has been away from NY for a long time.

Thank you very much, but I find it a bit difficult to understand that. For example,
(1)I've known her since I have lived in this street.(I live in the street.)
(2)I've known her since I lived in this street. (I have no longer lived in the street.)
Different tense and aspect suggest completely different meanings. But why do these examples originally put forward share the same meaning? After all, they look really alike.

GPYOur spirits have been greatly lifted since he joined the team.

GPYJing Jiewu(2)it's been a long time since you've kissed your dear children good night.Apart from the missing capital letter at the start of the sentence, this one is OK.

I feel rather bewildered why the subordinate clause in the sentence 'Our spirits have been greatly lifted since he joined the team.'cannot adopt present perfect, whereas in 'it's been a long time since you've kissed your dear children good night.' can? I think 'join' and 'kiss' are both momentary verb and consequently they can share the same rule, though I do think present perfect in the first one are rather clumsy and unnatural.

AlpheccaStars · Answer

(2) I've known her since I lived in this street. (I ~~have~~ no longer live on that street.)

The sentence is not good. Use this instead:
I've known her since the time when I lived in this street.

"Since I lived on this street" does not express a point in time. "When I lived on this street" expresses a point in time.

Similarly:
Our spirits have been high since (from the time when) he joined the team.
"Since he joined the team" expresses a single point in time.

Our spirits are high since (because) he has joined the team. "Since" takes the meaning of "because," giving a reason for the team's high spirits.

Jing Jiewu · Answer

Thank you very much, I think I get your point. Continuous verbs like 'live' cannot be used to express a point in time in the subordinate clause led by 'since', while momentary verbs can. Is that right?

GPY · Answer

Jing JiewuI feel rather bewildered why the subordinate clause in the sentence 'Our spirits have been greatly lifted since he joined the team.'cannot adopt present perfect, whereas in 'it's been a long time since you've kissed your dear children good night.' can? I think 'join' and 'kiss' are both momentary verb and consequently they can share the same rule, though I do think present perfect in the first one are rather clumsy and unnatural.

Sorry, in making several changes to the "spirits" sentence, I may have lost sight of the point about tense. In fact, "Our spirits have been greatly lifted since he has joined the team" might also be used (although, as AS mentioned, it is ambiguous, as "since" could also mean "because"). It seems to me that such use of the present perfect is an idiomatic variation that does not have a totally solid foundation in grammar.

AlpheccaStars · Answer

The difference is the first part of the sentence which is remarking about a time period. There is no state or situation that requires a starting point in time.

It has been a long time since ....
(both present perfect and simple past are OK in the next clause)
I have read a good book, I have seen Mary, I have been to a good movie, I have run a marathon....

But other sentences describing a state or situation require a specific point in the past.
I have been happy since ...
(present perfect is not OK in this clause)
I read that book.
I visited my mother
I first kissed Sarah

Our team has won every game since ... (present perfect is not OK in this clause)
Bruce recovered from his injury.
John joined the team.
we got a new coach.
etc.

Jing Jiewu · Answer

GPYSorry, in making several changes to the "spirits" sentence, I may have lost sight of the point about tense. In fact, "Our spirits have been greatly lifted since he has joined the team" might also be used (although, as AS mentioned, it is ambiguous, as "since" could also mean "because"). It seems to me that such use of the present perfect is an idiomatic variation that does not have a totally solid foundation in grammar.

So can I somehow generalize such use of present perfect as an ungrammatical but a common usage whose prevalence make it vaguely reasonable among native English speakers, one way or another?

Jing Jiewu · Answer

AlpheccaStarsThe difference is the first part of the sentence which is remarking about a time period. There is no state or situation that requires a starting point in time.It has been a long time since ....(both present perfect and simple past are OK in the next clause)I have read a good book, I have seen Mary, I have been to a good movie, I have run a marathon....But other sentences describing a state or situation require a specific point in the past. I have been happy since ...(present perfect is not OK in this clause) I read that book.I visited my motherI first kissed SarahOur team has won every game since ... (present perfect is not OK in this clause) Bruce recovered from his injury.John joined the team.we got a new coach.etc.

Sorry to intrigue you again. But I found a sentence on my guidance book. Does this sentence ring false according to the rule?
Sentence: He has written to me frequently since I have been ill.

Anonymous · Answer

AlpheccaStarsThe sentence is not good. Use this instead:I've known her since the time when I lived in this street. "Since I lived on this street" does not express a point in time. "When I lived on this street" expresses a point in time

I disagree. The point in time is "the time", the head of the noun phrase "the time when I lived in this street".

Mr. Tom · Answer

AlpheccaStars The sentence is not good. Use this instead:I've known her since the time when I lived in this street.

What about this AStar? Is it OK with ever?

I've known her ever since I lived here/in this street.

Thanks,

Tom

the usage of 'since'

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