The sequence of tenses

Question

Could you confirm whether both of the following sentences are right? I suppose both of them are okay, but what each of them means is different from each other. Please check also whether my understanding on them are right. Thank you in advance.

1. He said his friend was well.
: This means that his friend was healthy when he talked about his friend(or he believed so when he told the speaker about his friend). The speaker doesn't know whether his friend is fine now as ever, or simply doesn't give any information about it with the sentence though the speaker knows about it. This sentence is a typical example about the sequence of tenses.

2. He said his friend is well.
: This means that the speaker knows that his friend is still healthy now, and gives that information to the listener(s) with the sentence. This sentence doesn't follow the sequence of tenses, but right as it stands.

Clive · Accepted Answer

Yes, that's all correct.

CalifJim · Answer

1. He said his friend was well.
: This means that his friend was healthy when he talked about his friend(or he believed so when he told the speaker about his friend). The speaker doesn't know whether his friend is fine now as ever, or simply doesn't give any information about it with the sentence though the speaker knows about it. This sentence is a typical example about the sequence of tenses.

Leave out the blue text in your explanation. The speaker is the person who said the whole sentence. That person is just reporting what someone else ("he") said. He himself does not know if the friend is well or not.
_________

2. He said his friend is well.
: This means that the speaker knows that his friend is still healthy now, and gives that information to the listener(s) with the sentence. This sentence doesn't follow the sequence of tenses, but right as it stands.

As above, the speaker is repeating what he heard; therefore, he doesn't know anything about the state of health of "the friend". His claim is that someone else said "My friend is well".
____________

In general, don't call the subject of the sentence ("he" in this case) "the speaker". That is almost never true unless the subject is "I".

CJ

Lucas21c · Answer

To CalifJim:

Could you tell me your opinions again after reading below?

==

In my posts, the speaker means the person who conveys what he/she heard from someone else to listener(s) in indirect speech. He is the subject of the whole sentences that the speaker says, and his friend is the subject of the subordinate clause.

1. I think your answer to #2 might have some problems. You said the speaker doesn't know anything about the state of health of "the friend", but, in #2, it is essential that the speaker should know about the state of health of 'his friend'. Unless the speaker knows about the state of health of 'his friend', the speaker cannot use the present tense in the subordinate clause because [He said, "My friend is well"] is [He said his friend was well], not [He said his friend is well]. That is to say, in #2, the tense of the subordinate clause reflects what the speaker knows, not what the speaker heard. So, it can be right though the subordinate clause doesn't follow the tense of the main clause.

2. Although the speaker knows that 'his friend' is well now, the speaker can also choose not to give that information to listener(s). So, I think the blue part that you mentioned, 'though the speaker knows about it' in #1, is needed.

CalifJim · Answer

lucas21cIn my posts, the speaker means the person who conveys what he/she heard from someone else to listener(s) in indirect speech. He is the subject of the whole sentences that the speaker says, and his friend is the subject of the subordinate clause.

OK. All that seems reasonable.

lucas21cI think your answer to #2 might have some problems.

I'm sure that many answers on the forum, both from me and from others, may have problems. Let's continue and see what we've got here.

lucas21cYou said the speaker doesn't know anything about the state of health of "the friend", but, in #2, it is essential that the speaker should know about the state of health of 'his friend'. Unless the speaker knows about the state of health of 'his friend', the speaker cannot use the present tense in the subordinate clause

The speaker may or may not know about the state of health of the friend; that is not relevant. The idea is that he doesn't actually have to know about that to say the sentence.

lucas21c[He said, "My friend is well"] is [He said his friend was well], not [He said his friend is well].

It can be either one. Suppose I'm on the phone. Someone else, say Lucy, is in the room with me. I'm talking to Jack on the phone. Jack tells me, "My friend Tom is well". Jack knows that Lucy and I will be very upset if we find out that Tom is very ill, so he just says "My friend Tom is well". Jack doesn't want to make us worried at this time. Lucy can't hear the conversation. She asks me, "What did Tom say?" I say: He said his friend is well.

Now Jack knows that Tom is very ill. Can we say that I know that Jack's friend Tom is well? I don't think so, because that's false. My best guess, from what Jack told me, is that Tom is well, but I don't have to know that Tom is well in order to say He (Jack) said his friend (Tom) is well. All I have to do is report what Jack said, not what Jack knows. I'm not saying He knows his friend is well. I'm saying He said his friend is well.

The reason I can use the present tense is is that the state of the friend's health (Tom's health) is part of the discussion that is going on at the time I say it, that is, in the present. The information "Tom is well", whether true or false, is current information. The discussion about whether Tom is ill or well is happening now. In this case, I'd say it's the time of the exchange of information that's more important, not who knows it or not.

CJ

The sequence of tenses

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