The Phrase - "continue to hold the Indian Sign over"

Question

In sports, when a team (Team A) continues to win over another (Team B), one often comes across the phrase "(Team A) continue to hold the Indian Sign over (Team B)".
Does anyone know the origin & excat meaning of this phrase, and in what situations it is generally used?
Also, what does the phrase "continue to hold the Indian Sign over "(A)`s got the Indian sign on (B)" mean, and where does it come from? ((A) and (B) being hypothetical characters, as in the previous phase).

Thanks in Advance.

Usenet · Accepted Answer

Hi,
The Sub-question should read
Also, what does the phrase "(A)`s got the Indian sign on (B)" mean, and where does it come from? ((A) and (B) being hypothetical characters, as in the previous phase).
My apologies

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]In sports, when a team (Team A) continues to win over another (Team B), one often comes across the phrase "(Team A) continue to hold the Indian Sign over (Team B)".[/nq]
I admit that I had never to my knowledge seen or heard this expression before seeing your post. The 'one' that has 'often' come across the phrase ain't me.
[nq:1]Does anyone know the origin & excat meaning of this phrase, and in what situations it is generally used?[/nq]
Neither J. Green nor Ayto list this term. Chapman & Kipfer (was Wentworth & Flexner) have
the Indian sign
(baseball by 1908)
A baleful spell or curse = hex, jinx, whammy.
"You'd think the Indian sign was on the who operation."

Here are the citations from OED2. The first relevant one seems to be from 1910. Make of them what you will:

1805 P. Gass Jrnl. 30 May (1807) 93 We see a great many fresh *Indiantracks or signs as we pass along.

1854 J. R. Bartlett Pers. Narr. Explor. Texas I. iv. 95 They had seen?Indian sign?, and pointed out...the well-known Indian signal of a puff of smoke suddenly rising from the earth.

1866 Rep. Indian Affairs (U.S.) 188 On the 19th, proceeding again tothe Malheur river, but found no fresh Indian signs.
1873 J. H. Beadle Undevel. West xxxiv. 738, I rode around our camp, acircle of about six miles, looking for Indian signs.
1910 R. Grau Business Man in Amusement World 97 He has also beencareful to protect himself against ?the Indian Sign?.
1912 McClure's Mag. XXXIX. 235/1 He sure put the Indian sign on TommyRyan that time.

1916 Boy Scouts' Year Bk. (N.Y.) 93/2 He had proved that the Indiansign wasn't infallible.... After all, then, the Indian sign was a kind of superstition.
a1918 G. Stuart 40 Yrs. on Frontier (1925) I. 115 Plenty of Indian signs, saw signal fires on the mountains to westward.
1929 Bookman Sept. 62/2 Owen Johnson always has had what is known asthe ?Indian Sign? on me. I never won a bet from him and never will.
1944 R. F. Adams Western Words (1945) 83/1 To put the Indian sign onsomeone meant to hex or curse him with some kind of witchcraft, also to get him where you want him.

1948 V. Palmer Golconda x. 79 What silly notions about ourselves we cancoddle! I believe the old boy's put the Indian sign on you, Neda.
1973 Listener 5 June 6/3 We were riding very high in terms of ourlegislative programme. We had the Indian sign on the Congress, so to speak.
[nq:1]Also, what does the phrase "continue to hold the Indian Sign over "(A)`s got the Indian sign on (B)" mean, and where does it come from? ((A) and (B) being hypothetical characters, as in the previous phase).[/nq]
How is this a different question from the one you asked above?
[nq:1]Thanks in Advance.[/nq]
You're welcome in behind.

"If you want to post a followup via groups.google.com, don't use the broken "Reply" link at the bottom of the article. Click on "show options" at the top of the article, then click on the "Reply" at the bottom of the article headers." - Keith Thompson

Usenet · Answer

The 1944 quote seems to define it.
[nq:1]1944 R. F. Adams Western Words (1945) 83/1 To put the Indian sign on someone meant to hex or curse him with some kind of witchcraft, also to get him where you want him.[/nq]
John Dean
Oxford

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]In sports, when a team (Team A) continues to win ... A) continue to hold the Indian Sign over (Team B)".[/nq]
They used to stand wooden Indian statues in front of tobacco stores. If somebody held one of those over your team it would probably really upset everybody.

The Phrase - "continue to hold the Indian Sign over"

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