The Old English

Question

As someone who's genuinely interested in the ancient English I find the lack of articles that would go deeper under the surface somewhat sad as there are some questions left unanswered by all the articles I read.

Question #1: Whom in a side sentence
I know that whom represents the object of the main sentence. What I'm not sure of is, whether it acts as a subject or an object in the side sequence, then.

Subject: It is a dog, whom killed me.
Object: It is a dog, whom I killed.

Question #2: Strong verbs
There are obviously exceptions in conjugations of the verbs (to be - am, art, art, are, are, are; should - should, shalt, shalt, should, should, should). My question is if there is any list. Also I'm curious how the modal verbs are handled? In the current English the modal verbs aren't inflected at all, in German they are inflected irregularly, in the old English, however, they seem to be inflected as the other verbs? (Thou canst not evade the Grim reaper's judgement!)

Question #3: My / mine, thy / thine
The articles say that unlike in the current English, both aforementioned forms were used depending on the first syllable of the following word (Thy sword / Thine eyes). But nowhere is mentioned if the rule applied nowadays was applied as well (My - with noun, Mine - noun missing).

Question #4: Inflecting in different tenses
The question says it all, I'd love to learn in which tenses the inflecting (-st, -th) was applied, also it would be nice to know what tenses were non-existent / unused in the 16-17th century and earlier (like the future prefect tense).

Question #5: Thou / You - Wow!
Despite of what most of the articles claim, I see the singular form of you being used in the old English quite frequently. I really like the fact that there can be two people in a sentence, each one addressed with a different pronoun, yet I should like to know what the real difference is, is Thou more formal? Maybe used to address the main character?

Also I would be most grateful for any links to helpful articles about the Ancient english, or recommendations regarding good literature on this topic.

Witiko · Accepted Answer

Yes, I know the question goes a little deeper, but just about any answer would be appreciated. You don't have to be able to answer all the subquestions posted. <img class='emoticon' style='Width:19px;Height:19px;' data-delaysrc='https://uat-englishforward-forums-backend.s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/Emoticons/1.gif' src='https://uat-englishforward-forums-backend.s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/Emoticons/1.gif' alt='Emotion: smile'/>

Tanit · Answer

Hi,

WitikoI would be most grateful for any links to helpful articles about the
ancient english, or recommendations regarding good literature on this topic.

You could start from the references (both books and links) provided at the very end of this page from Wikipedia: Old English.

Kristoffer · Answer

First things first - you start the thread entitled "The Old English" and then you write about Early Modern English. It is confusing, and maybe this is why you cannot find any useful information?

The "Old English" is a proper name - Old English is something like this:
Hwæt! We Gar-Dena in gear-dagum
þeod-cyninga þrym gefrunon,
hu þa æðelingas ellen fremedon.
("Beowulf")
Early Middle English is sometning like this:
Canst thou, O cruel! say I love thee not,
When I against myself with thee partake?
(Shakespeare, Sonnet 149)

And one more: writing about an "ancient English" is a mistake. The adjective "ancient" could be used for example with Greek or Latin - languages that existed in the ancient times - but English did not exist back then!

As for your questions:
1. "It is a dog, whom killed me" - it is incorrect. "It is a dog, who killed me" - it would be OK, but I would be careful with using "who" in reference to the dog.
2. Maybe there is such a list, but I know nothing about it's existance. But I am not omniscient. As for modal verbs, look at the quotation from Shakespeare. ("Canst thou")
3. AFAIK "The rule applied nowadays" was used back then - attributive "my/mine" (or "my/myne") plus noun, and predicative "mine" ("thou art mine").
4. I can't tell you today, maybe someday, when I will learn this.
5. It is rather quite opposite. In Middle English it became quite popular to addres to one's superior by plural form ("you") instead of singular ("thee") - compare German: unofficial "du" (singular) and official "Sie" (plural).
And as you ask about some articles/literature - you should start with history of English language. Then you will know where to search.
I hope I helped somehow.

Cheers.

Witiko · Answer

Kristofferyou should start with history of English language. Then you will know where to search.

Maybe with the history of the GB overall. Thank you sir for your input.

Calpurnia · Answer

You may find this link of interest:
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=CP16STG5NRUC

Anonymous · Answer

I HAVE CHECKED MY BOOKS BEFORE POSTING

Witiko,

I do not know modern English very well, let alone older forms of

this magnificent language.

I can, however, recommend a very old general grammar book

(written in the "old days" -- the 1930's) that answers many of

your questions:

A Grammar of the English Language (two volumes) by Dr.

George O. Curme. It is, I think, what they call a tour de force.

In plain English, it is

marvelous

fantastic

incredible

Dr. Curme explains in detail English grammar and the history of how

many constructions came about, along with ample quotations.

Just to give you a taste of this masterpiece, I turned to his comments

on the future perfect and discovered:

"It is not found in the language of Shakespeare."

I then found this about possessive adjectives:

[Regarding your comment about "mine - noun missing]

"The old attributive use of mine, however, still lingers in the language

of affection: 'sister mine,' etc."

Just one more tidbit.

Regarding your interest in tense endings:

"This dialectic northern s ... spread southward to the northern

part of the Midland and was used in the East in the third person

singular alongside of older -th."

If you can get this two-volume treasure at a better library,

it will keep you enthralled for the rest of your life.

Someone once said that Ms. Florence Nightingale's

"heroic efforts on behalf of suffering humanity will be recognised and

admired by all ages as long as the world shall last." Well, there is

little doubt that Professor Curme's work will also be recognized and

admired by all students of English as long as the language shall

last.

The Old English

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