The idiomatic use of the Present Perfect

Question

Hello!I am confused whether it's correct and idiomatic to use the Present Perfect when we talk about some events in the relatively far past that are not to occur anymore.For instance, if a person says to another: "Today in the park I've seen a fantastic girl." Is it okay to ask then: "Why haven't you taken her number?"To me it sounds just wrong in such contexts. I think native speakers would use the Past SImple instead.For instance, an example that seems okay to me:A: "Today I was in a shop and saw a nice notebook."B: "Why haven't you bought it?"Here the Present Perfect seems idiomatic to me for some reason, but I can't say exactly why.Am I correct?Thanks!

Clive · Accepted Answer

Use Simple  Past in all those examples.

CalifJim · Answer

nkspbFor instance, if a person says to another: "Today in the park I've seen a fantastic girl." Is it okay to ask then: "Why haven't you taken her number?"To me it sounds just wrong in such contexts. I think native speakers would use the Past SImple instead.

You are correct. "Today" indicates, in reality, a specific moment during the current day. You cannot use the present perfect in a sentence that refers to a specific time.

nkspban example that seems okay to me:A: "Today I was in a shop and saw a nice notebook."B: "Why haven't you bought it?"Here the Present Perfect seems idiomatic to me for some reason, but I can't say exactly why.

B's reply can be cast in either the past or the present perfect.

Why didn't you buy it? / Why haven't you bought it?

The choice depends on the speaker's attitude about the act of buying the notebook. "didn't you buy" indicates that the speaker views the non-purchase as the result of a decision that was made at the time, and is therefore "past history". "haven't you bought" indicates that the speaker views the current absence of the book in A's hands as the more important fact. It's saying "You haven't got the notebook. Why not, if you thought it was so nice?" It also very subtly hints "You still have time to change your mind, go back, and buy the notebook".

Both are equally valid reactions within the given situation, though I have to say that personally, I would use the simple past. Maybe I'm thinking that it's none of my business to question someone's decision not to buy a notebook.

CJ

Nkspb · Answer

Thanks for your answers.

I'd like to clarify, please.

nkspb: For instance, if a person says to another: "Today in the park I've seen a fantastic girl." Is it okay to ask then: "Why haven't you taken her number?"To me it sounds just wrong in such contexts. I think native speakers would use the Past SImple instead.

CalifJim"Today" indicates, in reality, a specific moment during the current day. You cannot use the present perfect in a sentence that refers to a specific time

But as I know, we can use the Present Perfect with today:
"I've seen a nice movie today", for example...

The way I see it all is that we cannot say: "Why haven't your taken her number?" from my example because this action can be hardly connected to the present in terms of the importance of the result.
If it was an action that happened right before the time of speaking, then this question could be used.

And what's strange.. to some extent this question is the same as asking "why haven't you bought it?" - we are interested in the result of the action, it's like asking - "Why haven't you taken her number, you should have done it..." So, maybe it is okay to use the Present Perfect here too?

I understand that the Past Simple works great, but I just try to grasp the concept behind the tenses.

Thanks.

CalifJim · Answer

nkspbBut as I know, we can use the Present Perfect with today:"I've seen a nice movie today", for example...

Theoretically you can say that with the present perfect, but I don't know anybody who would. Sometimes it's a matter of practice, not theory. Maybe it's because I'm American. Maybe Americans are more likely to see things as past and finished in situations where others might see a current relevance that needs to be expressed with the present perfect.

nkspbI'm just trying to grasp the concept behind the tenses.

Along with the rest of us.

The "present perfect vs the past" is one of the more difficult things in English. We native speakers seem to choose between them with no problem, and we seem to know instinctively when it doesn't matter which one we use. That's a difficult skill for learners to acquire, and a difficult one for native speakers to explain.

CJ

Anonymous · Answer

I can see why you're having trouble understanding these, because I'm a native English speaker in the US, and I can't really explain these.

"Today in the park I've seen a fantastic girl." is ungrammatical. Just why it's ungrammatical is difficult to explain, because you can say, correctly: "I've seen a fantastic girl in the park a number of times (in the past, which could go back a considerable ways, back months even)." The first sentence would be correct as: "Today in the park I saw a fantastic girl." Again, this is difficult to explain, since "today" seems like "the present," and the correct tense is the past tense.

"Why haven't you taken her number." is correct. Again, difficult to explain, since this seems to be asked in the present, but the tense has a "past" flavor to it.

A: "Today I was in a shop and saw a nice notebook." B: "Why haven't you bought it." is not right. B should be "Why didn't you buy it." The exchange would be correct as: A: "Today I was in that shop again, and I saw that notebook that I've been wanting to buy for months now." B: "Why haven't you bought it?" Again, difficult to explain these.

Anonymous · Answer

The sentence, "I've seen a nice move today.", is apparently grammatical, but people don't normally talk like this.  You'd more likely hear:  "I saw a nice movie today."  Again, difficult to explain.

Anonymous · Answer

I've looked into this some more, and the sentence, "Today in the park, I've seen a fantastic girl.", is apparently grammatical. But this sounds overly formal and 19th century, and it would not be heard today in the US (except maybe from an English professor).

The idiomatic use of the Present Perfect

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