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Senroeash Posted 15 years ago
Grammar
The girl sat at the bar...
Hi
Can anyone tell me what's going on with this phrase:
"The girl sat at the bar..."
My student wants to know why we can say "sat" here. The best I can come up with is that it is a reduced clause from "The girl who is sat at the bar..." but then that brings up the question, where does that construction come from? Normally a reduced clause which uses the V3 form comes from a passive but I don't see what's passive about that.
I am a Uk native speaker from Sheffield, could it just be my dialect?
Cheers.
Robert
Can anyone tell me what's going on with this phrase:
"The girl sat at the bar..."
My student wants to know why we can say "sat" here. The best I can come up with is that it is a reduced clause from "The girl who is sat at the bar..." but then that brings up the question, where does that construction come from? Normally a reduced clause which uses the V3 form comes from a passive but I don't see what's passive about that.
I am a Uk native speaker from Sheffield, could it just be my dialect?
Cheers.
Robert
Top answer
Without context, it's difficult to say. As is, the sentence is fine, as a simple statement of fact. I wouldn't say "is sat at the bar" - "was sitting" is a good phrase for the sake of description.
- Without context, it's difficult to say.
- As is, the sentence is fine, as a simple statement of fact.
- I wouldn't say "is sat at the bar" - "was sitting" is a good phrase for the sake of description.
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16 Answers
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Without context, it's difficult to say. As is, the sentence is fine, as a simple statement of fact.
I wouldn't say "is sat at the bar" - "was sitting" is a good phrase for the sake of description.
I wouldn't say "is sat at the bar" - "was sitting" is a good phrase for the sake of description.
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Wider context:
"The girl sat at the bar who is smoking a cigarette just winked at me" used as an example sentence to teach defining relative clauses.
Clearly "sat at the bar" is correct, but why?
Cheers.
Robert
"The girl sat at the bar who is smoking a cigarette just winked at me" used as an example sentence to teach defining relative clauses.
Clearly "sat at the bar" is correct, but why?
Cheers.
Robert
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Hi,
One of the meanings of 'the verb 'sit' is 'cause to sit'.
We see this in sentences like these.
eg The restaurant manager sat Mary at the table in the corner.
eg Tom sat h
One of the meanings of 'the verb 'sit' is 'cause to sit'.
We see this in sentences like these.
eg The restaurant manager sat Mary at the table in the corner.
eg Tom sat h
00
That still doesn't explain why we use what looks like a passive construction.
Also, what about the fact that to my mind the full phrase is in fact:
"The girl who is sat at the bar just winked at me" not "was sat". I'm imagining the scenario that I'm sat at a table with my mate and telling him what's just happened. So the girl is still there. And there you go, I'm also perfectly
Also, what about the fact that to my mind the full phrase is in fact:
"The girl who is sat at the bar just winked at me" not "was sat". I'm imagining the scenario that I'm sat at a table with my mate and telling him what's just happened. So the girl is still there. And there you go, I'm also perfectly
00
Hi,
It is a passive construction.
Here's how I see it.
A much-expanded version would be
eg The girl (who was) sat at the bar (by herself as the agent) winked at me
It is a passive construction.
Here's how I see it.
A much-expanded version would be
eg The girl (who was) sat at the bar (by herself as the agent) winked at me
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Ah! Now I've got it. Phew, it just looked so.. wrong as a passive. Great, so now it's just a reduced clause and I know how to explain that.
Thanks very much Clive!
Robert
Thanks very much Clive!
Robert
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It's very, very rare that I don't agree with Clive, and he's taught me a lot, but I can't make "sat" work here at all!
"The girl seated at the bar," yes. But "the girl sat at the bar"? No.
I would say "The hostess seated me here" not "The hostess sat me here." Is this a regional difference?
The noun phrase "The girl sat at the bar who is smoking a cigaratte" sounds compl
"The girl seated at the bar," yes. But "the girl sat at the bar"? No.
I would say "The hostess seated me here" not "The hostess sat me here." Is this a regional difference?
The noun phrase "The girl sat at the bar who is smoking a cigaratte" sounds compl
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Philip As is, the sentence is fine, as a simple statement of fact.I cannot find anything extraordinary in it either!
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Try this:
See that girl over there who is sat at the bar by herself... she just winked at me.
The sentence is correct, I just needed an explanation for how the reduced clause worked.
Cheers.
Robert
See that girl over there who is sat at the bar by herself... she just winked at me.
The sentence is correct, I just needed an explanation for how the reduced clause worked.
Cheers.
Robert
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No, it isn't, Robert:
See that girl over there who is sitting at the bar by herself? She just winked at me.
See that girl over there who is sitting at the bar by herself? She just winked at me.
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