The cigarettes

Question

Hi.Suppose I am in a store and I say to an employee:Please place this where cigarettes are.Please place this where the cigarettes are.I am referring to the section in the store that sells cigarettes. Can I use either no article or the definite article before "cigarettes"? I think I can do both. I explain:No article = I am not thinking of any specific cigarettes = any cigarettes in that section.The cigarettes = the cigarettes that are carried by the store, more specific.Right? Thank you.

GPY · Accepted Answer

It is not natural to omit the article there.

AndyOrban · Answer

Thank you, GPY.

CalifJim · Answer

Please put/place this where the cigarettes are. (There are already cigarettes there. There is a "cigarette section".)

Please put/place this where cigarettes are. (Wherever, anywhere, you find cigarettes, put this there.) (Not a likely sentence compared to the previous one. There are not likely to be cigarettes strewn about the store in various places.)

Please put/place this where you keep (the) cigarettes.
( "the": where they are already kept (together) / no "the": where you keep them when/if you have them)

The comments in parentheses show the approximate reasoning.

CJ

AndyOrban · Answer

Thank you, CalifJim.

Would it be okay to say:

In this section, the store carries carries cigarettes.

(I think it's better without the article like that).

This is my logic. If you are at a zoo and if you want to see the elephants.
Would you mind telling us where the elephants are? (The elephants at this zoo, not just any elephants).
Would you mind telling us where we can go and see (the) elephants here/at this zoo. (Both are okay because of the determining "here" or "at this zoo").

Do I understand this?

CalifJim · Answer

AndyOrbanIn this section, the store ~~carries~~ carries cigarettes.

"The store" is the whole institution. The store carries products in general, but keeps them in a section. Remove "in this section".

Does the store carry cigarettes? Yes, the store carries cigarettes. The store also carries toilet paper, cough syrup, and women's underwear. It used to carry jewelry, and it used to carry garden tools, but not anymore. Next month the store will be carrying lawn mowers, but only for a limited time.

AndyOrbanThis is my logic. If you are at a zoo and if you want to see the elephants.Would you mind telling us where the elephants are? (The elephants at this zoo, not just any elephants).Would you mind telling us where we can go and see (the) elephants here/at this zoo. (Both are okay because of the determining "here" or "at this zoo").Do I understand this?

Yup! Seems so.

... go and see elephants (if there are any) / go and see the elephants (that you have here)

CJ

AndyOrban · Answer

Thank you, CJ. Sorry for being so finicky. It's just that these things are not always so obvious. I notice that English-speaking people might be talking about something, like a school for example, and then they say:
Students have had the opportunity to learn a lot this year.
Not "the students", even though it's clear that only the students at the school are being referred to. I suppose it's because some prior context has already established this...

CalifJim · Answer

AndyOrbanthese things are not always so obvious.

Understatement of the year.

AndyOrbanStudents have had the opportunity to learn a lot this year.Not "the students", even though it's clear that only the students at the school are being referred to.

Right. I think I might have said "The students ...", but "Students ..." doesn't bother me.

AndyOrbanI suppose it's because some prior context has already established this...

That's a good guess. Also, native speakers aren't always as careful in their speech and writing as is advised for learners. Learners are often held to a higher standard until they become really fluent and native-sounding.

CJ

AndyOrban · Answer

Thank you, CJ, you are very helpful and put a wide smile on my face today!

CalifJimThat's a good guess.

Do you mean as in just a good guess or is there truth to this observation of mine?

CalifJim · Answer

AndyOrbanDo you mean as in just a good guess or is there truth to this observation of mine?

It means that sometimes nobody knows why people do the things they do, and that includes their choice of words. Given one sentence, it's anybody's guess why it came out of someone's mouth that way when there were several ways of expressing the same idea.

(Prior context usually means "the" will be used later, which is reverse of what you were saying because you were explaining the absence of "the". However, as I said, it's possible. Who knows?)

CJ

AndyOrban · Answer

I see, thank you very much.

(What I meant was:

I attended that school when I was a teenager. I enjoyed my experience there. It was a good school, still is. Teachers are mostly helpful and knowledgeable. Students are studious and respectful. You can send your children there.
In this example: prior context is "that school". It is clear that "teachers" and "students" could only apply to that school, so many English-speaking people drop the definite article, I observed this on many occasions. Others say "the teachers", "the students". No particular pattern! But it goes back to what you said.)

Sorry if I didn't make it clear.

Thank you very much!

The cigarettes

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