The article "the" before "private messages"

Question

He shouldn't have posted the PM's that were meant to be private.[PM = Private message]vsHe shouldn't have posted PM's that were meant to be private. Are they both correct?Shouldn't there always be the article "the" in sentences like these because we are talking about specific messages?What's the difference between the two sentences?Thanks in advance!

Elanguest · Accepted Answer

The second one is correct. It's a bit ironic that he shouldn't have posted private messages that were meant to be private, isn't it? <img class='emoticon' style='Width:19px;Height:19px;' data-delaysrc='https://uat-englishforward-forums-backend.s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/Emoticons/5.gif' src='https://uat-englishforward-forums-backend.s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/Emoticons/5.gif' alt='Emotion: wink'/>

Dib · Answer

Thanks and I lol'ed at the ironic part

I am confused, why not "the" here? Aren't we talking about specific messages?

On a forum that I am on , one poster sent 2-4 messages to the other person in private. That other poster posted screen shots of those messages. So wasn't I supposed to say he has" posted THE messages"(I have those 2-4 messages in my mind when I was talking about them there.) instead of "posted messages"?

Thanks again.

CalifJim · Answer

DibShouldn't there always be the article "the" in sentences like these because we are talking about specific messages?

No. It's not really a question of "specific". In this case it's a question of contrast. Sometimes if you use "the" you're implying two or more groups — the things in the "the" group and the things not in the "the" group. I know that sounds strange so let me illustrate.

1 the private messages that were meant to be private
suggests the existence of another group of private messages, namely,
2 the private messages that were not meant to be private (or
the private messages that were meant to be made public).

The term private messages contradicts meant to be made public, so the second group of messages doesn't actually exist. There is only one group. There is therefore no reason for including "the".

CJ

Dib · Answer

Thanks

What if we change the sentence to:

the private messages that he posted screenshots of.

Is the above sentence correct? Also am I correct if I use THE screenshots? like in the sentence below

the private messages that he posted the screenshots of.

Thanks again!

CalifJim · Answer

DibWhat if we change the sentence to:the private messages that he posted screenshots of.

That seems all right because there may be private messages that he did not post screenshots of.

DibIs the above sentence correct?

Yes.

DibAlso am I correct if I use THE screenshots? like in the sentence belowthe private messages that he posted the screenshots of.

Yes, if it has already been established in the conversation which screenshots the screenshots are. If nobody has mentioned anything about some particular screenshots yet, then you don't use "the". In some contexts, like this one, you have to think of "the" as "aforementioned", i.e., already mentioned. You can think of it as follows:

"No the" is "cold". You start a conversation "cold". You don't use "the". I saw a strange woman yesterday.
the is "warm". The conversation "warms up". You use "the" to refer to things you have already mentioned. The woman was wearing unusual clothes. Here the means 'already mentioned', so no one is going to ask you "Which woman?"

You can't start "cold" (just walk up to someone and start speaking) with I saw the strange woman yesterday, because your listener is going to ask "Which woman?" "Who are you talking about?" That's because you've started the conversation by saying, in effect, Yesterday I saw the strange woman that I've already mentioned, but you haven't mentioned anybody yet, so you're just saying something very confusing.

CJ

Dib · Answer

Thanks

can you kindly check these as well:

Mike has deleted the emails Shawn sent him.

Mike has deleted the silly emails Shawn sent him.[by using "silly" after"the" we are implying that he has other kind of emails in addition to "silly emails" in his inbox, say "smart emails", right?]

I have lost the emails I received during the power outage.

I have lost emails I received during the power outage.

Thanks again!

CalifJim · Answer

DibMike has deleted the emails Shawn sent him.
Mike has deleted the silly emails Shawn sent him.
I have lost the emails I received during the power outage.

All of these are fine. Your reasoning in the case of "silly" is correct, though we can still interpret it to mean that all Shawn's emails are silly.

DibI have lost emails I received during the power outage.

I think most native speakers would say "... lost some (of the) emails I received ..." to be more clear in this case.

CJ

Dib · Answer

Thanks

I had also put in my reasoning for the last two sentences but got edited out or maybe there was some error with the server? I don't know. I type my posts on notepad and than paste them here so I am pretty sure I did put the reasoning in the brackets of the last two sentences as well. Anyway will re-paste it:

I have lost the emails I received during the power outage.[Here I am implying that I know which email I have lost as I have already read those]

I have lost emails I received during the power outage.

Is my understanding of English correct in the above two sentences?

Thanks again.

Dib · Answer

THE REASONING FOR THE LAST SENTENCE GOT EDITED OUT AGAIN?!

here is the sentence again:

I have lost emails I received during the power outage.

Can any one tell me why are my posts getting edited out

CalifJim · Answer

DibI have lost the emails I received during the power outage.[Here I am implying that I know which email I have lost as I have already read those]

OK. That sounds reasonable.

DibI have lost emails I received during the power outage.

I believe I have already commented on this one. ... lost some (of the) emails I received ... is more idiomatic.

I have lost emails makes emails sound generic, i.e., non-specific, but (that) I received during the power outage makes emails sound specific, so there's a contradiction.

CJ

The article "the" before "private messages"

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