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Usenet Posted 22 years ago
Usage
The AmE 'o' sound
I've noticed on American-oriented dictionaries/wordlists dotted about the WWW that the sound of the letter 'o' tends to be written as 'ah', e.g. "KAHNskript".
This has kind-of surprised me, as surely to Americans it's the 'o' sound. Moreover, in sources that use IPA I've variously seen it written as /a/, /a:/, /A:/, /A/, /O:/. (For that matter, CALD and CDAE don't seem to be able to make up their mind.) Here in Britain, /A:/ is used as in 'father', 'path' and 'cart' (OK, so there are regional differences), whereas /A./ is our 'o' sound as in 'box'.
To me, 'ah' in a pronunciation would mean /A:/. To my ears, an American 'o' sounds similar but by no means identical to an /A:/. The presence of renderings of AmE 'o' as 'ah' suggests that it makes sense to some extent - do many of you across the pond have the same vowel in 'father', 'aunt' etc. as in 'dog', 'box', etc.?
Stewart.
This has kind-of surprised me, as surely to Americans it's the 'o' sound. Moreover, in sources that use IPA I've variously seen it written as /a/, /a:/, /A:/, /A/, /O:/. (For that matter, CALD and CDAE don't seem to be able to make up their mind.) Here in Britain, /A:/ is used as in 'father', 'path' and 'cart' (OK, so there are regional differences), whereas /A./ is our 'o' sound as in 'box'.
To me, 'ah' in a pronunciation would mean /A:/. To my ears, an American 'o' sounds similar but by no means identical to an /A:/. The presence of renderings of AmE 'o' as 'ah' suggests that it makes sense to some extent - do many of you across the pond have the same vowel in 'father', 'aunt' etc. as in 'dog', 'box', etc.?
Stewart.
Top answer
g. "KAHNskript". [/nq] "Ah" is less ambiguous.
- g.
- "KAHNskript".
- [/nq] "Ah" is less ambiguous.
- lang eggheads), but if a word were rendered phonetically with just "o" I'd probably assume it was meant to be "long o" as well.
- And indeed, in my speech, the first syllable of "conscript" sounds just like both the word "con" and the surname "Kahn".
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186 Answers
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[nq:1]I've noticed on American-oriented dictionaries/wordlists dotted about the WWW that the sound of the letter 'o' tends to be written as 'ah', e.g. "KAHNskript". This has kind-of surprised me, as surely to Americans it's the 'o' sound.[/nq]
"Ah" is less ambiguous. To be unambiguous about the "long o" sound in "soap", I'd generally write "oh" in informal environments (i.e., not for the sci.l
"Ah" is less ambiguous. To be unambiguous about the "long o" sound in "soap", I'd generally write "oh" in informal environments (i.e., not for the sci.l
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[nq:1]I've noticed on American-oriented dictionaries/wordlists dotted about the WWW that the sound of the letter 'o' tends to be written ... do many of you across the pond have the same vowel in 'father', 'aunt' etc. as in 'dog', 'box', etc.?[/nq]
My understanding is that, except in Eastern New England, they usually have the same vowel in "father" and "box", but that "aunt" and "dog" may well
My understanding is that, except in Eastern New England, they usually have the same vowel in "father" and "box", but that "aunt" and "dog" may well
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[nq:1]I've noticed on American-oriented dictionaries/wordlists dotted about the WWW that the sound of the letter 'o' tends to be written ... many of you across the pond have the same vowel in 'father', 'aunt' etc. as in 'dog', 'box', etc.? Stewart.[/nq]
They speak like that in New York, Robert Kennedy was always called Bahbby Kinnedy. People think that here in Boston we say it bahston for some
They speak like that in New York, Robert Kennedy was always called Bahbby Kinnedy. People think that here in Boston we say it bahston for some
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Stewart asked:
[nq:1]do many of you across the pond have the same vowel in 'father', 'aunt' etc. as in 'dog', 'box', etc.?[/nq]
That question isn't on today's ballots, but I'll give you a write-in vote: in my speech, the questioned vowels in , , and differ from each other, and the vowel in matches that in .
[nq:1]do many of you across the pond have the same vowel in 'father', 'aunt' etc. as in 'dog', 'box', etc.?[/nq]
That question isn't on today's ballots, but I'll give you a write-in vote: in my speech, the questioned vowels in , , and differ from each other, and the vowel in matches that in .
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[nq:1]"Ah" is less ambiguous. To be unambiguous about the "long o" sound in "soap", I'd generally write "oh" in informal ... a word were rendered phonetically with just "o" I'd probably assume it was meant to be "long o" as well.[/nq]
Where I'm from, a single vowel in a phonetic transcription of this sort always means the letter's usual short sound.
[nq:1]And indeed, in my speech, the firs
Where I'm from, a single vowel in a phonetic transcription of this sort always means the letter's usual short sound.
[nq:1]And indeed, in my speech, the firs
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[nq:1]They speak like that in New York, Robert Kennedy was always called Bahbby Kinnedy.[/nq]
Wrong. Unlike much of the Midwest, we distinguish /in/ from /en/.
Peter T. Daniels (Email Removed)
Wrong. Unlike much of the Midwest, we distinguish /in/ from /en/.
Peter T. Daniels (Email Removed)
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[nq:1][/nq]
Yes.
[nq:2]"Aunt" is a separate issue because, like "either" and "often", it has two alternate pronunciations that are independent of other dialectal variations: /Ant/ and /&nt/.[/nq]
[nq:1]I see. FTM, how do you pronounce "au" as in "cause" or "automatic"?[/nq]
For me those are /O/.
Yes.
[nq:2]"Aunt" is a separate issue because, like "either" and "often", it has two alternate pronunciations that are independent of other dialectal variations: /Ant/ and /&nt/.[/nq]
[nq:1]I see. FTM, how do you pronounce "au" as in "cause" or "automatic"?[/nq]
For me those are /O/.
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[nq:1]I see. FTM, how do you pronounce "au" as in "cause" or "automatic"? (These are both /O:/ in BrE - "aunt" is an exception and is /A:nt/)[/nq]
For sufficiently small values of BrE.
Although normally represents the "caught" vowel in my variety of BrE, I can think of several groups of exceptions - "cat" vowel in "aunt" and "laugh", "cot" vowel in "sausage" and "Australia" (and a few oth
For sufficiently small values of BrE.
Although normally represents the "caught" vowel in my variety of BrE, I can think of several groups of exceptions - "cat" vowel in "aunt" and "laugh", "cot" vowel in "sausage" and "Australia" (and a few oth
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[nq:1]I've noticed on American-oriented dictionaries/wordlists dotted about the WWW that the sound of the letter 'o' tends to be written as 'ah', e.g. "KAHNskript". This has kind-of surprised me, as surely to Americans it's the 'o' sound.[/nq]
Most American speakers merge "short o" with "ah". The main exception, I believe, is Eastern New England speakers.
[nq:1]To me, 'ah' in a pronunciati
Most American speakers merge "short o" with "ah". The main exception, I believe, is Eastern New England speakers.
[nq:1]To me, 'ah' in a pronunciati
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[nq:1]Old-fashioned RP sometimes moves CLOTH to join THOUGHT (think of how they say "off"). My understanding is that in a ... and LOT are the same (the "short o", or "ah" sound) CLOTH and THOUGHT are the same (the "aw" sound)[/nq]
You are correct, sir. In my accent (Postwar New York Prestige Standard(TM)), "trap" and "bath" have the two different short a's (be-able can and tin can, respectivel
You are correct, sir. In my accent (Postwar New York Prestige Standard(TM)), "trap" and "bath" have the two different short a's (be-able can and tin can, respectivel
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