Than / over / among

Question

Hello,Please help.  Thank you.A.  She is most beautiful than the other contestants.B.  She is the most beautiful over the other contestants.C.  She is the most beautiful among the other contestants.1.  Which sentence above is correct?2.  In C, can I say 'among the contestants' instead of 'among the other contestants'?  What's the difference?

Ivanhr · Accepted Answer

AnonymousHello,Please help. Thank you.A.

She is ~~most~~ more beautiful than the other contestants.

B. She is the most beautiful over the other contestants (incorrect).

C. She is the most beautiful girl among the ~~other~~ contestants.

1. Which sentence above is correct? None as they stand. 2. In C, can I say 'among the contestants' instead of 'among the other contestants'? What's the difference? You have to use "among the contestants". 'Among' and 'other' are incompatible here because she's part of the contestants unless, of course, there are 2 groups of contestants and you're referring to that other group.

Anonymous · Answer

Thank you, Ivanhr. I really appreciate your explanations.

Just some follow up questions:
1. From what I understand, 'more than' usually compares only two people or two things, but in my sentence there's is probably more than two contestants. Please clarify.
2. Is 'most than' not possible' especially if there are more than two contestants?

Ivanhr'Among' and 'other' are incompatible here

1. I sometimes hear the phrase 'among others'. When is it correct to use it? Kindly give an example.

Ivanhr · Answer

1. I don't think there's such a rule that restricts the use of "more than" with more than two people or things. If you know that such a rule exists please post it here.

2. "Most than" isn't possible. I think the reason is that you don't actually compare anything when dealing with superlatives (hence the name superlative; for comparisons you have "more than").

3. She's the most beatiuful girl among the other contestants. (if there are 2 groups of contestansts and she's a part of that other group then this is ok)

Among others.

Among others, I've also been to France and Spain. (among others = among other countries)

Anonymous · Answer

Based on your explanation, I think what I understood about 'more than' and 'most than' is not correct at all. Thank you for your clarification.

A. She's the most beautiful girl among the contestants. (no grouping; she's one of the contestants)

B. She's the most beautiful girl among the other contestants. (2 groups; she's part of the other group)

C. She's the most beautiful girl among other contestants. (comparing with the example below, it doesn't seem there are groupings; she's just one of the contestants)

Among other countries, I've also been to France and Spain. (It doesn't seem there are groupings of countries)

1. Is C above grammatically correct? And does it make sense?
2. If so, do you think my interpretation of C is correct based on how I interpreted your example with 'among other countries'?
3. If the answer to #2 is yes, do you think 'the' is the key word that makes the difference in interpretation between B and C?
4. If all the answers to the preceding questions are yes, then there's is no real difference between A and C. Would you agree?

I'm sorry, Ivanhr, if I have so many questions about this. I just wanted to learn how a slight change in the wording affects the meaning. Thanks so much for your advice and your patience.

Ivanhr · Answer

I think I know what your problem is with "among the other contestants".

You shouldn't look at "the other contestants" as "all the contestants except her". The use of "among" dictates that you must treat "the other contestants" as one group of which she's a part. This implies that there must be another group of contestants.

Anonymous · Answer

Thank you, Ivanhr, for that explanation. It's starting to become clearer and clearer to me now with just a couple of questions below.

Among other countries, I've been to France and Spain.

If I've understood you correctly, in the above example, does it mean that France and Spain are part of 'other countries'?

John is a very good student among others.

Again, does it mean above that John is part of "other students" because among others = among other students and it implies there must be another group of students?

Ivanhr · Answer

AnonymousThank you, Ivanhr, for that explanation. It's starting to become clearer and clearer to me now with just a couple of questions below.Among other countries, I've been to France and Spain.If I've understood you correctly, in the above example, does it mean that France and Spain are part of 'other countries'?

The semantical function of "among others" is not always the same. While in the "She's the most ...." sentence it clearly denotes a group, in the France and Spain sentence it's there for the sole purpose of mentioning "other countries" besides France and Spain. No grouping should be implied here.

John is a very good student among others.

Sorry, but this doesn't sound ok to me. Perhaps this is better

John really stands out among other students. (John is part of "other students") but only one group is implied here.

Again, does it mean above that John is part of "other students" because among others = among other students and it implies there must be another group of students?

Anonymous · Answer

Thanks, again, for your explanation and your correction of my sentence.

IvanhrJohn really stands out among other students. (John is part of "other students") but only one group is implied here.

I'm sorry, I'm still a bit confused here. If only one group is implied, how come there are "other students", which John is part of?
Don't you think "among other students" has the same function as "among other countries" instead? That is it's there for the sole purpose of mentioning "other students" besides John.

Do you also think the sentence below has the same meaning as your original sentence?

John really stands out among the students. (= John really stands out among other students.)

Ivanhr · Answer

This is getting a bit messy. I think it's best to avoid this "among others" phrase altogether unless it's for the purpose of mentioning additional things or people. Consider the following

Let's say you have a group of four girls: Kate, Mary, Susan and Claire and then say

Susan is the most beautiful among the girls.

I think you'll agree with me that the girls refers to all the girls. Now if you say

Susan is the most beautiful among the other girls. (What exactly does "the other girls" mean? If you think "the other girls" refers to Kate, Mary and Claire

then the following sentence should make sense but it doen't.

Susan is the most beautiful girl among Kate, Claire and Mary. (doesn't make sense to me)

But

Susan is the most beautiful girl among Kate, Claire, Mary and herself. (this makes sense to me but also implies two groups)

The John sentence doesn't necessarily imply two groups but I still consider John to be a part of a group of students.

Some people may disagree with me on this one though.

Do you also think the sentence below has the same meaning as your original sentence?

John really stands out among the students. (= John really stands out among other students.)

No, not really. Your sentence doesn't suggests that John is necessarily a student.

Ivanhr · Answer

Just one more clarification: In the John sentence, it's possible to think of John as an entity separate from "other students". As a consequence this will imply two groups: John and other students.

Than / over / among

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