-th

Question

Hi there,

I would say I have a pretty decent accent, I don't stress my words much. However I can't proprely pronounce some words that have a 'th' in them.

Father- as its got a slight 'd-ish' sound comes off OK. But the th part in enthusiasm and thin is pretty tough to pronounce. I understand we shouldn't touch the roof of our mouth with the tip of our tongue when trying to pronounce th, but i don't really understand how its done.

I have watched some videos on you tube that seem to have helped people get rid of this problem, but I guess I am a bit slow; I never really understood how to 'blow out while blowing in at the same time' in order to pronounce it right.

I would appreciate it if someone could help me out here.

Thanks.

S.P.I. · Accepted Answer

Hi there, to give you a better idea about how i pronounce my 'th'; I am uploading a voice recording.

Thanks again in advance.

RayH · Answer

S.P.I.I understand we shouldn't touch the roof of our mouth with the tip of our tongue when trying to pronounce th, but i don't really understand how its done.

I'm not a speech therapist so I doubt I have the correct terminology, but I hope I get the idea across.

In your recording it sounds like you are touching the tip of your tongue to the back of your upper teeth. For the "th" sound (as in "thin") you need to place the tip of your tongue between your upper and lower teeth and exhale a bit of air as you make the "th" sound.

S.P.I. · Answer

That was a quick reply, it took me a few tries but I think i have got it

I got some stuff to take care of right now, but when i have the time I will upload another recording of what I hope is the correct prnouncication.

Thanks.

EDIT: A non technical descprition is exactly what I needed.

Raindoctor · Answer

There is a difference between a plosive (stop) consonant and a fricative. In english, "th" in thin is a fricative. However, people from Indian subcontinent pronounce it as a stop consonant, because that's what their native languages at that place. When you wanna pronounce voicelss fricative "th", you should never let your tongue touch the upper teeth: instead, you should have a small gap between your tongue and teeth, and hiss thru that channel.

S.P.I. · Answer

That is quite insightful, if its not too much trouble- could you let me know of some other common pronounciation mistakes made by asians from the sub continent?

EDIT: My request might sound a bit strange. However your last post makes it sound like you have noticed some mistakes made by folks from the subcontinent, I'd appreciate it if you could list some of them.

Raindoctor · Answer

1. their /v/ is weak, since they have it as an approximant, which is weaker than a fricative. In Eng, it is a fricative. Even in english, /v/ can have its approximant as an allophone: this occurs probably in phrases like "five sixty", since it is a v+s cluster.

2. They replace the approximant /w/ in English with the nearest sounding approximant in their lingos--and that is, /v/.

3. They even have troubles pronouncing /w/, since their vowels /u/ and /U/ got messed up in some cases. The trick is start with the vowel /u/ (this makes you round ur lips and forcing ur bottom teeth away from lips), then say the remaining. Pronounce "Well" as "uell"

4. Even tho they have aspirated stops /p/, /t/,and /k/, they hardly use them in their natively spoken languages. So, when they see /p/, /t/ and /k/, they end up prononcing unaspirated stops everywhere.

5. Some Indian languages got retroflex stops /t/ and /d/ (and Sanskrit does). Eng got Alveoler /t/ and /d/. So they end up producing retroflex variants

6. They got alveolar trilled /r/. In AmE, it is not trilled at all and it is rounded. Observe how Indians pronounce /r/ in "right" (along with their released t)

7. in AmE, vowel plus r = just a rhotic vowel, with some historic neutralizations. Indians dont see the vowel nature of r: it doesn't touch the roof of mouth.

8. They dont produce diphtongs /aI/ and /aU/; instead they end up producing /??/ and /??/, since the latter are the closest ones they have in their lingos.

9. they don't have /?/ and /??/. Instead, they produce /o?/ and /??/

10. They sound like they got BrE accent. I think this is partly to do with their not having /æ/ in their lingos. So, they produce something like /?/, because that's what they have. It has nothing to do with broad-A split (trap-bath split) in English.

11. They don't have /?/ as in bet. But they can perceive the difference between this and /eI/ and can produce /?/.

12. The other problem is their syllabizatoin. In their lingos, the syllabization principle is neat and simple: V, VN, CV, CVN, CCV, CCVN, etc, where V, C and N denote a vowel, consonant or nasal respectively. They apply this internalized principle, internalized because if you ask for that principle, they have hard time coming up with it. This syllabization is another major culprit in their english accent: they end up pronouncing some consonant clusters which are permitted in their native lingo syllabization but which are not permitted in Eng.

13. Another thing I noticed with their consonants: even though books claim that they got stop consonants, etc, when I see them pronounce, for instance, unaspirated k [ k ], they produce fricative [ x ] as in the /k/ sound in worker. That's the case with the word "ghazal". So, this leads to stress-related problems in Eng.

14. Their syllabization principle is also another hurdle when it comes to stressing English words. Add this with English syllabization principles, which vary with the tempo (for instance, C.-J. Bailey discusses it in his works)

15. Complaints about their intonation: they just pronounce word by word, some of them claim to have Queen's pronounciation;) It has nothing to do with BrE. Just an side effect of their native languages. So, you should better give em tips on compressing phrases like "I'll = aisle", etc

S.P.I. · Answer

That's a neat list, I appreciate the time you put into writing it out.

There is one last favor I'd like to ask, could you please list the most common words that have an unvoiced -th. I would really appreciate it if you could also list out the words where -th is voiced.

You have been really helpful.

Thanks.

CalifJim · Answer

S.P.I.I can't proprely pronounce some words that have a 'th' in them.

Bite the tip of your tongue!!!

Well, not completely. Close down on the tip of your tongue as if you were going to bite it. Hold your teeth tightly to your tongue. Try to blow air out of your mouth. You won't be able to if you are holding your tongue tightly enough between your teeth. Now loosen the hold you have on your tongue. Blow air out of your mouth again. Now you have the th sound (unvoiced).

Hum an "m" continuously while trying the same sound. Let your lips separate so the air can get out. The "m" will go away, but keep humming. Now, if your tongue is feeling a little tickled by the vibrations of humming, you have the th sound (voiced).

Once you can do the th as described above, you can move your tongue a little back where it is in less danger of being bitten and only a very tiny bit of your tongue is close enough to your teeth to be bitten -- and you can still get the same sound. This is how most English speakers do the th.

CJ

CalifJim · Answer

S.P.I.list out the words where -th is voiced.

Any good dictionary will give you this information.

Generally speaking, the "grammatical words" have initial voiced th.

the, this, that, these, those, that, then, there, thus, therefore, they, them, their, thy, thou, ...

Voiced th occurs in the ther ending:

father, mother, other, bother, wither, whether, rather, leather, feather, ...
(Also, similarly, southern)

And the other "content" words have unvoiced th.

thin, thistle, thermometer, thing, thief, truth, Ruth, both, moth, ...

Check a dictionary. There are exceptions.

CJ

Anonymous · Answer

English is my first language so I don't remember ever having to learn how to pronounce the "th" sound, but I think thatone thing that may help you is to put your tongue between your teeth and breathe out. As far as I know native speakers say it when the tongue is behind their teeth but I'm sure once you can get it down making the "th" sound with your tongue between your teeth, then I think you'll be able to make that sound when your tongue is behind your teeth.

Try that, I hope it works for you :]

-th

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