Tess

[nq:1]To her and her like, birth itself was an ordeal of degrading personal com=pulsion, whose gratuitousness nothing in the result seemed to justify, and at best=could only palliate. from Tess of D'urbervilles Can the'birth' in the citation mean 'life'?[/nq]
I don't think so. It looks to me like literal birth, being born. The "result" is life.
[nq:1]How do you think Thomas Hardy could bel

[nq:2]To her and her like, birth itself was an ordeal ... Tess of D'urbervilles Can the'birth' in the citation mean 'life'?[/nq]
[nq:1]I don't think so. It looks to me like literal birth, being born. The "result" is life.[/nq]
I haven't read the book, but I'd say it's more likely "giving birth" than "being born".
[nq:2]How do you think Thomas Hardy could belittle life of one regardless

[nq:2]I don't think so. It looks to me like literal birth, being born. The "result" is life.[/nq]
[nq:1]I haven't read the book, but I'd say it's more likely "giving birth" than "being born".[/nq]
In the context of the novel it's clear that it means "being born". The children are singing:
"Here we suffer grief and pain,
Here we meet to part again;
In Heaven we part no more."

In our last episode, (Email Removed), the lovely and talented chance broadcast on alt.usage.english:
[nq:1]To her and her like, birth itself was an ordeal of degrading personal compulsion, whose gratuitousness nothing in the result ... in the citation mean 'life'? How do you think Thomas Hardy could belittle life of one regardless of one's status?[/nq]
I realize that some cultures value qu

[nq:2]I haven't read the book, but I'd say it's more likely "giving birth" than "being born".[/nq]
[nq:1]In the context of the novel it's clear that it means "being born". The children are singing: "Here we suffer ... not really born naked" and Hardy is saying that being born is an inglorious ordeal for Tess and her like.[/nq]
It is unfair for Hardy to beliitle Tess for her low social stat

[nq:2]In the context of the novel it's clear that it ... born is an inglorious ordeal for Tess and her like.[/nq]
[nq:1]It is unfair for Hardy to beliitle Tess for her low social status. The irony is Alec's pretended nobility is sham. Is it so that only artistocrats have the right to live while others are left to fend for themselves by whatever means?[/nq]
This is a picture of life in that

[nq:2]In the context of the novel it's clear that it ... born is an inglorious ordeal for Tess and her like.[/nq]
[nq:1]It is unfair for Hardy to beliitle Tess for her low social status. The irony is Alec's pretended nobility is ... right to live while others are left to fend for themselves by whatever means? Thanks. Your comments are always sensible.[/nq]
Please re-read James Hogg's post.

[nq:2]So, Wordsworth is saying "We're not really born naked" and Hardy is saying that being born is an inglorious ordeal for Tess and her like.[/nq]
[nq:1]It is unfair for Hardy to beliitle Tess for her low social status. The irony is Alec's pretended nobility is sham. Is it so that only artistocrats have the right to live while others are left to fend for themselves by whatever means?[/nq]

[nq:2]To her and her like, birth itself was an ordeal ... Hardy could belittle life of one regardless of one's status?[/nq]
[nq:1]I realize that some cultures value quantities of life over quality how else could we explain impoverished people producing ... sad situation are far from universal. Hardy is not belittling the lives of poor people circumstances have done that.[/nq]
There are two

[nq:2]It is unfair for Hardy to beliitle Tess for her ... others are left to fend for themselves by whatever means?[/nq]
[nq:1]If you think Hardy belittles Tess, then I suggest you go and read the book carefully.[/nq]
Throughout the book, Hardy was sympathetic to Tess, of course. But I was shocked by his remark as cited for his negation of the life of Tess because of her low social status.