Teresa Heinz Kerry

Question

Just wondering - one of our presidential candidates' wife's name is Teresa Heinz Kerry. No hyphen, just the three names like that. I am trying to figure out what the Heinz is doing in there. Has anyone wondered why she uses her last two husbands' last names? Don't you either use a hyphenated name or just your current husband's name? But if you use a hyphenated, it would be your maiden name plus your husband's name, not your last two husbands. Her maiden name was Teresa Simoes-Ferreira, which was itself a hyphenated. So she should be either

Teresa Kerry, or
Teresa Simoes-Ferreira Kerry, or
Teresa Simoes-Ferreira-Heinz-Kerry,
but not Teresa Heinz Kerry. That would be cherry picking from your favorite names rather than proper usage.
Anyone know the proper rules for taking married names?

Gary Eickmeier

Usenet · Accepted Answer

[nq:1]but not Teresa Heinz Kerry. That would be cherry picking from your favorite names rather than proper usage. Anyone know the proper rules for taking married names?[/nq]
Does she have children from another marriage? If so, she may have originally kept the name Heinz so that she would have the same last name as her children. Many divorced women do that.

Dena Jo
Email goes to denajo2 at the dot com variation of the Yahoo domain. Have I confused you? Go here:
http://myweb.cableone.net/denajo/emailme.htm

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]Just wondering - one of our presidential candidates' wife's name is Teresa Heinz Kerry. No hyphen, just the three names like that. I am trying to figure out what the Heinz is doing in there. Has anyone[/nq]
Probably because she doesn't want to cast her two sons adrift, so to speak, by dropping their father's name.
And because she is the managing director or whatever of a couple of her late husband's large charitable foundations, which both have Heinz in their names. I had the rough impression she spent between 10 and
40 hours a week on them and made the major decisions.
[nq:1]wondered why she uses her last two husbands' last names? Don't you either use a hyphenated name or just your current husband's name? But if[/nq]
I think it varies.
[nq:1]you use a hyphenated, it would be your maiden name plus your husband's name, not your last two husbands. Her maiden name was Teresa Simoes-Ferreira, which was itself a hyphenated. So she should be either Teresa Kerry, or Teresa Simoes-Ferreira Kerry, or Teresa Simoes-Ferreira-Heinz-Kerry,[/nq]
LOL.
[nq:1]but not Teresa Heinz Kerry. That would be cherry picking from your favorite names rather than proper usage.[/nq]My mother's first husband died after 10 years, and she married a man 5 years later and I was born. My father adopted my older brother who continued to use his father's name as his middle name. (Well, they used it for him since he was only 6 or 7 at the time.) I'm not sure what she used for her middle name then, but my father died after they were married 10 years, and my mother remarried 10 years after that. I believe she then kept my father's name as her middle name, and her new husband's as her last.

I presume the reasons were that she wanted to keep the family name that my brother and I have. I think also, when she married that 3rd time at 58 years old, she didn't have the energy to change the name on any stock my father had left her (and there were several but believe you me, we were nowhere near rich. I think we were lower middle class in income.)
Eventually I discussed with my mother what she wanted on her tombstone, and the things she specifically wanted was her date of birth and date of death, and her name in English written as First Maiden Hubby1 Hubby2 Hubby3.
And that's what I did.
In the process, well before Mrs. Kerry was in the news, I began to wonder what women did who were married for 40 years to the father of their children, then widowed, and then married for 10 years to hubby2. Cemeteries are one of my interests, and I've been to between 50 and
100 over the last 30 years, especially those that are old, famous, orJewish. And while I was designing the text for my mother's stone, I went to about 20 cemeteries in Baltimore (part of the previous total), and I don't remember in any of these recent ones seeing any woman who had the name of more than one husband on it. And I agree with my mother, I don't think that's fair.Most Jewish families put a small memorial plaque, an inch and a half high by 6 inches (not big enough for more than 3 names IMO), on a bigger plaque that the synagogue has for that purpose, one of which holds maybe 2 columns of 40 plaques each. My mother and step-father's congregation was big, and mine was small, so I put a plaque there with the name first hubby2 hubby3. (Hubby2 is my father.) But I wanted her name recorded at the congregation I grew up in and there I don't remember what I did because it was hard to decide.

Or maybe my brother had it put up. I know we both saw it when we went to our aunt's 100th birthday party. And I still haven't done anything for the congregation my mother grew up in and returned to after my father died, where she used all 4 of her last names at various times. I can't decide what to put.
[nq:1]Anyone know the proper rules for taking married names? Gary Eickmeier[/nq]
s/ meirman If you are emailing me please
say if you are posting the same response.
Born west of Pittsburgh Pa. 10 years
Indianapolis, 7 years
Chicago, 6 years
Brooklyn NY 12 years
Baltimore 20 years

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]Just wondering - one of our presidential candidates' wife's name is Teresa Heinz Kerry. No hyphen, just the three names ... picking from your favorite names rather than proper usage. Anyone know the proper rules for taking married names? Gary Eickmeier[/nq]
It could be that she has taken a former surname as a middle name. Is she Mrs Kerry or Mrs Heinz Kerry?
To drop the Heinz would be tricky considering her interests and money. Hyphenating the name seems wrong, a woman with a hyphenated surname should hyphenate her own maiden name with her husband's surname. Converting a former surname into a middle name seems quite reasonable, just as many families incorporate surnames from their ancestors as middle names. The bloke isn't Mr Walker Bush, is he? I can see it is perfectly reasonable for her to be at one and the same time Mrs John Kerry, Mrs Kerry Mrs Teresa Heinz Kerry and (for preference) Teresa Heinz Kerry, who happens to be wife of John Kerry. As for rules as far as I understand it in common law you can call yourself whatever you want as long as it is not for nefarious purposes.
Hyphenating surnames is a nuisance, it leads to silly long names very quickly, the commemoration of other surnames as middle names (whether used routinely or not) seems a better way to go.
John Kerry will be president. I was told that in 1984, so I went to help out in his campaign so that one day I'd be able to say I had done so.

Martin Willett
http://mwillett.org/

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]Just wondering - one of our presidential candidates' wife's name is Teresa Heinz Kerry. No hyphen, just the three names ... be cherry picking from your favorite names rather than proper usage. Anyone know the proper rules for taking married names?[/nq]
I don't know that there are rules at all. Not even conventions. It seems to be a decision that is purely personal.
A woman with a hyphenated last name - Sally Ferris-Brown - usually picks that form to indicate that her husband's last name is Brown, and her own maiden name is Ferris. Even this is sometimes reversed if she is well-known by her maiden name.
A woman that uses the form Sally Ferris Brown does so because (1) her maiden name is Ferris and she doesn't like hyphenated names, or (2) she's re-married and wants to keep Ferris in her name. This is case with Mrs Kerry.
I don't see how you can say "rather than proper usage" without citing some reliable source that tells you what "proper usage" is. I doubt if you'll find one.
In a day where some women don't use their husband's name at all, and some couples never get around to marrying, I don't know why you'd be critical of one particular example.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]Just wondering - one of our presidential candidates' wife's name is Teresa Heinz Kerry.[/nq]
Can anyone deny she would be the first "African-American" first lady?

GFH

Usenet · Answer

~~snip~~
[nq:2]Anyone know the proper rules for taking married names?[/nq]
~~snip~~
[nq:1]I don't see how you can say "rather than proper usage" without citing some reliable source that tells you what ... all, and some couples never get around to marrying, I don't know why you'd be critical of one particular example.[/nq]
That was my reaction, too that the previously-widespread "proper rules" have been abandoned to such an extent that the concept of proprietry in name-adoption is archaic. (Not only is "Mrs Mary Smith" no longer a cast-iron statement of widowhood, it doesn't even reliably indicate the surname of her husband.)
There really isn't any such thing now as "proper rules" in these matters.

Cheers, Harvey
Ottawa/Toronto/Edmonton for 30 years;
Southern England for the past 22 years.
(for e-mail, change harvey.news to harvey.van)

Usenet · Answer

Harvey Van Sickle typed thus:
[nq:1]On 08 Aug 2004, Tony Cooper wrote[/nq]
[nq:1]~~snip~~ ~~snip~~[/nq]
[nq:2]I don't see how you can say "rather than proper ... don't know why you'd be critical of one particular example.[/nq]
[nq:1]That was my reaction, too that the previously-widespread "proper rules" have been abandoned to such an extent that the ... "Mrs Mary Smith" no longer a cast-iron statement of widowhood, it doesn't even reliably indicate the surname of her husband.)[/nq]
No longer? Both my grandmothers used this form (with their husbands' surnames) after they were married in the 1920s - there was no implication that they were widowed.
[nq:1]There really isn't any such thing now as "proper rules" in these matters.[/nq]
Quite.

David
==

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]Harvey Van Sickle typed thus:[/nq]
[nq:2]On 08 Aug 2004, Tony Cooper wrote ~~snip~~ ~~snip~~ That ... it doesn't even reliably indicate the surname of her husband.)[/nq]
[nq:1]No longer? Both my grandmothers used this form (with their husbands' surnames) after they were married in the 1920s - there was no implication that they were widowed.[/nq]
I believe you that there was no implication, but I'm afraid many people would have drawn that inference.
I forgot in my first post to mention what I knew about the old rules, at least in some parts of the US population.
[nq:2]There really isn't any such thing now as "proper rules" in these matters.[/nq]
[nq:1]Quite.[/nq]
Just as I defend most old usages and prohibitions in English, I defend most of them in etiquette as well, and I read alt.fan.miss-manners. Nothing as complicated as Mrs. Kerry's situation has been discussed there in the last few years that I've been reading, but a woman married once and still married has been pretty thoroughly discussed. Especially in terms of how wedding invitations and newspaper announcements should name the parents. And about half or more of those posting, mostly women in their 30's and 40's I think (but I'm only gleaning their aget from their remarks about their jobs.) have insisted that the old rules still apply.
And they were (are?), assuming she was married only once, that Mrs. Kerry can call herself Mrs. Kerry or Mrs. John Kerry, or iirc Teresa Kerry but NOT Mrs. Teresa Kerry. I hadn't noticed that there was any rule against that, and although most females don't think I'm a feminist, and there is much of their agenda I don't share, I think it was and is a stupid rule, and I feel no obligation to it, especially if it is from England. (I"ll have to check what custom my great grandparents in Lithuania and White Russia used.)
And Harvey is referring to the practice that iirc it was only permitted to call oneself Mrs. Teresa Kerry after John Kerry had died, I guess because Mrs. John Kerry implies John is still alive. (Yet haven't many well-known widows continued to call themselves the equiv. of Mrs. John Kerry. I'm not sure.)
If I were sending out a wedding invitation for my daughter, it would never be from Mr. and Mrs. Meir Meirman, unless my wife insisted. I can't imagine she would. It would embarrass me to give my wife less billing than I got, in something that she was 50% or more involved in. And it woudl be even worse to do that in the newspaper announcement, because there is more than one Meirman (not my real name) in town, and not everyone knows the first name of every woman's husband. So some people wouldn't even know it was her kid. I've seen lists of benefactors to the Baltimore Symphony that list couples as Mr. and Mrs. John Miller, and I think there is no reason it shouldn't be John and Sara Miller. It's half her money.
And unless she didn't want it, I would think we would be listed in the phone book as Meir and Rachel Meirman, and that she would have a second listing under her maiden name as well. (I don't give my address in the phone book, but I certainly want people to be able to call me. And btw, there is no charge for not giving an address as there is for unlisted and unpublished numbers. (It seemed like I was the first one to do this with the phone company that served me when I got here. My first bill was sent to me with no address, returned to the phone company and remailed to me in a bigger envelope with a hand written address!

)
But nonetheless that is the old rule, and once one has discarded the prohibition against Mrs. Teresa Kerry or Mrs. Laura Bush, and I think most people have, if there will ever be a narrow rule again, it hasn't developed yet.
s/ meirman If you are emailing me please
say if you are posting the same response.
Born west of Pittsburgh Pa. 10 years
Indianapolis, 7 years
Chicago, 6 years
Brooklyn NY 12 years
Baltimore 20 years

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]To drop the Heinz would be tricky considering her interests and money. Hyphenating the name seems wrong, a woman with ... it in common law you can call yourself whatever you want as long as it is not for nefarious purposes.[/nq]
I guess I just don't understand the use of a former surname as a middle name. What about Hillary? Does she call herself Hillary Rodham Clinton or Hillary Rodham-Clinton? I just haven't taken notice of the middle name practice before. Curious.
[nq:1]Hyphenating surnames is a nuisance, it leads to silly long names very quickly, the commemoration of other surnames as middle names (whether used routinely or not) seems a better way to go.[/nq]
Agreed. So her first and last names are actually Teresa and Kerry.
[nq:1]John Kerry will be president. I was told that in 1984, so I went to help out in his campaign so that one day I'd be able to say I had done so.[/nq]
On what basis would he be president in 1984? Today? *** forbid - well, this isn't a political thread.
Gary Eickmeier

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]I guess I just don't understand the use of a former surname as a middle name. What about Hillary? Does she call herself Hillary Rodham Clinton or Hillary Rodham-Clinton?[/nq]
She calls herself Hillary Rodham Clinton.

Dena Jo
Email goes to denajo2 at the dot com variation of the Yahoo domain. Have I confused you? Go here:
http://myweb.cableone.net/denajo/emailme.htm

Teresa Heinz Kerry

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