Tense sentence help

Question

Are these sentences right in the simple present form rather than the present continuous because they verbs are considered facts?

It is the first time I 'see' you.
This is the first time I 'use' this device.

Thanks.

CalifJim · Accepted Answer

Anonymousbecause ~~they~~ the verbs are considered facts?

What? I don't think you really mean this. Verbs aren't facts, and they aren't considered facts.

AnonymousAre these sentences right in the simple present form rather than the present continuous

No. The simple present is used in the context of the future.

Future: It will be the first time I [see / use / meet / ...] ...
Past: It was the first time I [saw / used / met / ...] ...

For the present you only have the continuous: It's the first time I'm [seeing / using / meeting/ ...] ...

The tense system of English is not perfectly symmetrical.

CJ

Anonymous · Answer

Thanks for replying, CJ. This topic, whether to use simple present or present continuos, has always confused me.

CalifJimAnonymousbecause they the verbs are considered facts?What? I don't think you really mean this. Verbs aren't facts, and they aren't considered facts.

Sorry, I meant the sentences that use the simple present verbs are considered facts, which is one of its uses!

CalifJimNo. The simple present is used in the context of the future.

I thought that too, but I thought that it was possible to use either the simple present or contentious for the present in some examples, such as the ones I wrote. So is it always the continuos in this case?

I think that the simple present can be used for habits and facts also, right?

So when I am doing something in the present the verb always has to be in the continuos form, right?

CalifJimFor the present you only have the continuous: It's the first time I'm [seeing / using / meeting/ ...] ...

I see. So the ones I wrote are basically wrong, right?

Would these sentences also work?:
It’s my first time [seeing / using / meeting / ...] ...
This is my first time using this device. (‘to use’ would also be wrong, right?)

CalifJimThe tense system of English is not perfectly symmetrical.

It seems like it.

Also, what about when you say “I understand now” or “I now know”? Are they possible because they are incomplete and in their complete sentences they are followed by something like ‘what you are saying’?

Lastly, how about “I know what you mean”? Why is it not in the continuous form here?

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I am hoping to understand this topic and not to have to worry about it again!

CalifJim · Answer

AnonymousI meant the sentences that use the simple present verbs are considered facts, which is one of its uses!

I don't think you've got all of this exactly right. All of the sentences people say, no matter what tense they are in, may be considered facts. I found my lost key (past) can be just as much a fact as I know how to swim (present). Further, while sentences are presented as facts, they may actually be lies (I am a billionaire.) even in the present tense.

Just a few points to think about.

AnonymousI thought that it was possible to use either the simple present or contentious for the present in some examples, such as the ones I wrote. So is it always the continuous in this case?

It's usually present continuous for actions and present perfect for states. This is the first time I have understood it.

Anonymouswhen I am doing something in the present the verb always has to be in the continuous form, right?

In the context you cited, yes. (... the first time I ...)

AnonymousSo the ones I wrote are basically wrong, right?

Right. That is simply a logical deduction from what I've already said.

AnonymousWould these sentences also work?: It’s my first time [seeing / using / meeting / ...] ...This is my first time using this device. (‘to use’ would also be wrong, right?)

Yes. You've understood all of those points.

Anonymouswhat about when you say “I understand now” or “I now know”?

You're drifting away from the topic. This isn't related to "the first time I".

Those sentences are fine. We can only assume that they occur in a context where they make sense because of what was said before these were said. So yes, it's as if they are incomplete and include the idea of "what you said" or "what you're saying".

AnonymousLastly, how about “I know what you mean”? Why is it not in the continuous form here?

Again, you are applying what was said about the context "the first time I" to everything about the present simple and continuous. Every context is different. What I said about "the first time I" does not necessarily apply to every possible context.

In this case, "know" is one of many "non-progressive" (or "non-continuous") verbs. Such verbs virtually never occur in continuous tenses. This rule applies generally, not just to the special "first time" context we have been discussing.

CJ

Anonymous · Answer

CalifJimI don't think you've got all of this exactly right. All of the sentences people say, no matter what tense they are in, may be considered facts. I found my lost key (past) can be just as much a fact as I know how to swim (present). Further, while sentences are presented as facts, they may actually be lies (I am a billionaire.) even in the present tense.

So I understand that fact sentences are not necessarily in the present tense. What is the take home message here and what are the points to think about. I am really tired of thinking haha.

CalifJimIt's usually present continuous for actions and present perfect for states. This is the first time I have understood it.

Got it.

CalifJimwhen I am doing something in the present the verb always has to be in the continuous form, right?In the context you cited, yes. (... the first time I ...)

So is there any other context in which its not the continuous when doing something in the present or actions?

CalifJimWould these sentences also work?: It’s my first time [seeing / using / meeting / ...] ...This is my first time using this device. (‘to use’ would also be wrong, right?)Yes. You've understood all of those points.

Great!

CalifJimYou're drifting away from the topic. This isn't related to "the first time I". Those sentences are fine. We can only assume that they occur in a context where they make sense because of what was said before these were said. So yes, it's as if they are incomplete and include the idea of "what you said" or "what you're saying".

Yes, it is not related ‘to the first time’ but kind of related to the choice between the simple present of continuous forms, maybe! However, your explanation that your explanation that they occur in a context where they make sense because of what was said before these were said explains it. Right?

CalifJimLastly, how about “I know what you mean”? Why is it not in the continuous form here?Again, you are applying what was said about the context "the first time I" to everything about the present simple and continuous. Every context is different. What I said about "the first time I" does not necessarily apply to every possible context.In this case, "know" is one of many "non-progressive" (or "non-continuous") verbs. Such verbs virtually never occur in continuous tenses. This rule applies generally, not just to the special "first time" context we have been discussing.

I think that kind of relates to the previous answer and your clarification that “know” and other such verbs are one of the many non-progressive verbs. Right?

Just to confirm that I have understood this topic, the present continuous and not the simple present should be used for ’the first time I’ sentences and action sentences. Would that be correct?

Also, are there any other sentences in the present such as ‘the first time I’ that are related to present actions in which the simple present instead of the continuous is used, or is it always the continuous as you said earlier?

Sorry If I have repeated some questions as I want to make sure I have made myself clear on what I wanted to ask!

CalifJim · Answer

AnonymousCalifJimwhen I am doing something in the present the verb always has to be in the continuous form, right?In the context you cited, yes. (... the first time I ...)So is there any other context in which its not the continuous when doing something in the present or actions?

You use the present simple tense when you are demonstrating a procedure to someone else or to a group as you are doing it.

First, I put the flour in this bowl. (I say this at the same time as I do it.)
Then, I add the butter. (I say this at the same time as I do it.)
Then, I add the eggs. (I say this at the same time as I do it.)
And so on.

Anonymous... relates to the previous answer and your clarification that “know” and other such verbs are one of the many non-progressive verbs. Right?

Right.

Anonymousthe present continuous and not the simple present should be used for ’the first time I’ sentences ~~and~~ which are action sentences. Would that be correct?

Yes.

Anonymousare there any other sentences in the present such as ‘the first time I’ that are related to present actions in which the simple present instead of the continuous is used, or is it always the continuous as you said earlier?

Simple present instead of continuous is used in procedural demonstrations, so it's not always the continuous that is required. (See above.)

CJ

Anonymous · Answer

CalifJimYou use the present simple tense when you are demonstrating a procedure to someone else or to a group as you are doing it.First, I put the flour in this bowl. (I say this at the same time as I do it.)Then, I add the butter. (I say this at the same time as I do it.)Then, I add the eggs. (I say this at the same time as I do it.)And so on.

I see. That makes sense. Is there a terminology for this type of use, such as fact or habitual? Maybe, “general info.”?!

CalifJim relates to the previous answer and your clarification that “know” and other such verbs are one of the many non-progressive verbs. Right? Right.

Great. I think other related example or words include ‘I have, I want etc.’. Would that be correct?

CalifJimSimple present instead of continuous is used in procedural demonstrations, so it's not always the continuous that is required. (See above.)

Got it, thanks for the previous examples. I might be drifting now, but what about general statement sentences such as the below. Are they in the same category as the procedural ones you showed?

When you eat close your mouth; Don’t watch T.V when you study.
When you are eating close your mouth; Don’t watch T.V when you are studying.

Would either one, simple present or continuous, work in similar sentences?

Lastly, how about:
- I am thinking I am asking too many irrelevant questions vs. I think I am asking too many irrelevant questions.
- I think we should stop now vs. I am thinking we should stop now.

What is the explanations here? Is think one of those non-progrssive word or can it work either way?

CalifJim · Answer

AnonymousIs there a terminology for this type of use, such as fact or habitual? Maybe, “general info.”?!

No. We could probably find a lot of different uses, and these don't often get special names in the grammar books. My own name for this one is "the present simple of procedural demonstrations", but you can call it whatever you want.

Anonymousother related example or words include ‘I have, I want etc.’. Would that be correct?

Yes.

Anonymouswhat about general statement sentences such as the below. Are they in the same category as the procedural ones you showed?When you eat close your mouth; Don’t watch T.V when you study.When you are eating close your mouth; Don’t watch T.V when you are studying.

No, those aren't demonstrations of procedures. They're not in the same category.

AnonymousWould either one, simple present or continuous, work in similar sentences?

Yes. Native speakers usually choose the present simple there.

AnonymousLastly, how about:- I am thinking I am asking too many irrelevant questions vs. I think I am asking too many irrelevant questions.- I think we should stop now vs. I am thinking we should stop now.

These are treated the same as the previous examples. Either simple or continuous is possible, but native speakers tend to choose the simple tense.

AnonymousIs think one of those non-progrssive word or can it work either way?

Either way, but note the preference of native speakers mentioned above.

CJ

Anonymous · Answer

CalifJimNo. We could probably find a lot of different uses, and these don't often get special names in the grammar books. My own name for this one is "the present simple of procedural demonstrations", but you can call it whatever you want.

Got it. I like your own name for it.

CalifJimwhat about general statement sentences such as the below. Are they in the same category as the procedural ones you showed?When you eat close your mouth; Don’t watch T.V when you study.When you are eating close your mouth; Don’t watch T.V when you are studying.No, those aren't demonstrations of procedures. They're not in the same category.

I see. Do you agree that they are more of ‘general statments’?

CalifJimould either one, simple present or continuous, work in similar sentences?Yes. Native speakers usually choose the present simple there.

Ok. That makes things simpler incase I forget.

CalifJimThese are treated the same as the previous examples. Either simple or continuous is possible, but native speakers tend to choose the simple tense.

Got it.

CalifJimEither way, but note the preference of native speakers mentioned above.

I will keep this in mind. Thanks for the tip!

I am assuming that the below sentence and other similar ones are also treated as the previous, in which both are possible but it’s better to go with the simple tense, as you advised. Have I assumed correctly?

You are always asking the same questions vs. you always ask the same questions

Lastly, when talking and mentioning general valid statements as in when writing articles/papers or giving general advise, it’s best to use the simple present as well, such as the below and other similar sentences:
-It’s important that you (not: are working) work hard to pass your exams.
-Students go (not: are going) to school for education.

Am I correct regarding that?
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I can’t thank you enough for your help. BTW, I always save our tutorials for future reference!

CalifJim · Answer

AnonymousCalifJimwhat about general statement sentences such as the below. Are they in the same category as the procedural ones you showed?When you eat close your mouth; Don’t watch T.V when you study.When you are eating close your mouth; Don’t watch T.V when you are studying.No, those aren't demonstrations of procedures. They're not in the same category.I see. Do you agree that they are more of ‘general statements’?

There are hundreds of patterns that qualify as general statements, so I don't think it's much help to say that these are general statements. You could say they are imperatives with subordinate clauses. You could say that the give advice.

AnonymousI am assuming that the below sentence and other similar ones are also treated as the previous, in which both are possible but it’s better to go with the simple tense, as you advised. Have I assumed correctly? You are always asking the same questions vs. you always ask the same questions

Both tenses are possible here. Use the continuous form to emphasize the repeated quality of the situation, and thus the annoyance the speaker feels.

AnonymousLastly, when talking and mentioning general valid statements as in when writing articles/papers or giving general advise, it’s best to use the simple present as well, such as the below and other similar sentences:-It’s important that you (not: are working) work hard to pass your exams.-Students go (not: are going) to school for education.Am I correct regarding that?

Correct.

CJ

Anonymous · Answer

CalifJimThere are hundreds of patterns that qualify as general statements, so I don't think it's much help to say that these are general statements. You could say they are imperatives with subordinate clauses. You could say that the give advice.

Yes I agree. Some of these general statements patterns can include ‘the continuous’, which I think we have shown in some of our examples. Right?

CalifJimBoth tenses are possible here. Use the continuous form to emphasize the repeated quality of the situation, and thus the annoyance the speaker feels.

Got it. So this is kind of different than the previous ones that you suggested that natives usually use the simple present. I think it is to emphasize the repeated quality and annoyance, as you mentioned.

CalifJimIt’s important that you (not: are working) work hard to pass your exams.-Students go (not: are going) to school for education.Am I correct regarding that?Correct.

Awesome. Thanks a lot CJ for all your valuable help and time.

Joe

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