Tense after 'until'

Question

Hi,Which one of the following sentences sounds better? Also, why the phrase after 'until' is in the past tense in the first sentence.1. The system could provide enough heat for the building until the outside temperature dropped to 16 degrees Fahrenheit.2. The system could provide enough heat for the building until the outside temperature drops to 16 degrees Fahrenheit.Thanks,MG

Fandorin · Accepted Answer

Hi, Musicgold.

MusicgoldHi,

Which one of the following sentences sounds better? Also, why the phrase after 'until' is in the past tense in the first sentence.

1. The system could provide enough heat for the building until the outside temperature dropped to 16 degrees Fahrenheit.

2. The system could provide enough heat for the building until the outside temperature drops to 16 degrees Fahrenheit.

Thanks,

MG

The first sentence is quite clear. It's just a Past tense, and "could" indicates it. The second one is just a fact. As for me, both sound fine with indication of time which depends on context.

Avangi · Answer

<< 1. The system could provide enough heat for the building until the outside temperature dropped to 16 degrees Fahrenheit.

2. The system could provide enough heat for the building until the outside temperature drops to 16 degrees Fahrenheit. >>

They're both fine as conditionals, and each one would be appropriate with the right "if" statement.

Edit. I've got to hedge on this. I'm going to say that #2 should use "can."

If (eg.) a power failure were/was to occur, the system could provide etc. dropped etc. "

If (eg.) a power failure occurs, the system can provide etc. drops etc. "

Other configurations are probably possible. For example, "would" and "will" would be appropriate if we wish to indicate that still other options are not available.

Including "If the system were installed," could give us yet another set of possibilities.

BarbaraPA · Answer

I agree. The old system could until it dropped. (That's why they got a new system.)
The current system can until it drops. (So have a back up ready.)

Anonymous · Answer

Avangi and GG,

Thanks.

Anonymous · Answer

Hi. Do the sentences have to be conditionals, as they stand? Could this be something other than how you used it? I think the 'could' here denotes possibility.

A: How is our heating capaciity?
B: The system could provide enough heat for the building until the out temperature drops to 16 degrees.

CalifJim · Answer

MusicgoldThe system could provide enough heat for the building until the outside temperature dropped to 16 degrees Fahrenheit.

The system [had (in the past) the ability / used to be able] to provide enough heat for the building until the outside temperature dropped to 16 degrees Fahrenheit. (Perhaps this was seen to happen many times.)

MusicgoldThe system could provide enough heat for the building until the outside temperature drops to 16 degrees Fahrenheit.

The system [may / might] be able to provide enough heat for the building until the outside temperature drops to 16 degrees Fahrenheit. (Perhaps we haven't built the system yet; perhaps we've built it, but we haven't tried it yet.)

CJ

Anonymous · Answer

Hi.
You wrote this as part of your answer (with your quoting of Musicgold's sentence).

Musicgold

The system could provide enough heat for the building until the outside temperature drops to 16 degrees Fahrenheit.

The system [may / might] be able to provide enough heat for the building until the outside temperature drops to 16 degrees Fahrenheit. (Perhaps we haven't built the system yet; perhaps we've built it, but we haven't tried it yet.)

Don't you feel that the "may/might be able to" part may impart the notion of ability which the modal "could" could not possibly associated with?

CalifJim · Answer

Anonymous... the notion of ability which the modal "could" could not possibly associated with?

I don't understand why you think "could" could not possibly associated with ability. That's one of its main meanings.

CJ

Kooyeen · Answer

Musicgold1. The system could provide enough heat for the building until the outside temperature dropped to 16 degrees Fahrenheit.

Am I the only one who thought that sentence could also mean:
The hypothetical system we are discussing would perhaps be able to provide enough heat for the building until the temperature hypothetically dropped to something like 16 degrees or so... in theory, but all this is just an hypothesis.

In other words, I can see that "dropped" as a backshifted tense because of a completely hypothetical context. I am starting to think I might be confusing "until" with "unless".

Hmm, backshift after "unless" is common I guess, so that "until" might be misleading me for some reason.

Also, would you be able to pronounce "dropped to" and "drop to" differently? I just read the two original examples the same way...

Avangi · Answer

The possibilities seem endless. This is all icing on the cake, since the OP asked for a choice between two.

Frank Sinatra would have sung, "until the outside temperature, Baby, dropped-ah-to something like." An old-fashioned radio announcer, or newscaster, would have made it clear.

Frank used to sing, "Annndaa there used to be a ballpark, right here."

Tense after 'until'

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