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Hi,At meetings at Goldman, on the other hand, “not one single minute is spent asking questions about how we can help clients,” Mr. Smith wrote. “It’s purely about how we can make the most possible money off of them. If you were an alien from Mars and sat in on one of these meetings, you would believe that a client’s success or progress was not part of the thought process at all.” I notice that the verb used in the that-clause is in the past tense.Q) Is it because the main clause of the conditional construction denotes a remote possibility situation?similar example:If I can go there, I will buy a fish that is alive.(open conditional)If I could go there, I would buy a fish that was alive.(remote conditional)I'd appreciate your help.

Terryxpress · Accepted Answer

Oh dear - Americans and their grammar. The sentence should be:
At meetings at Goldman, on the other hand, “not one single minute is spent asking questions about how we can help clients,” Mr. Smith wrote. “It’s purely about how we can make the most possible money off of them. If you were an alien from Mars and ~~sat~~ (were) sitting in on one of these meetings, you would believe that a client’s success or progress was not part of the thought process at all.”
Of course, if you are learning Amer. Eng., stop me before I launch into a reply to your question.

CalifJim · Answer

Present, present perfect, and the future of the present (will) all go together. (Present "point of view")
Past, past perfect, and the future of the past (would) all go together. (Past "point of view")

Sometimes that's all you need to know.

You [believe / will believe / have believed] that this success [is not / will not be / has not been] part of the process.
You [believed / would believe / had believed] that this success [was not / would not be / had not been] part of the process.

The question of conditionality probably doesn't enter into it as much as you think, but I'm not sure what you're focusing on in asking about the conditionals. What you have written about open and remote conditionals is correct, but I don't see its direct relevance to the more general matching up of tenses.

The "was" just "goes along for the ride", as we Americans say, matching the same point of view as "were" and "would". What else could it be? Are you thinking "was" should be "is"?

If you were, you would ... that it was ....

CJ

Jooney · Answer

Thank you for your answer, Terryexpress.

Jooney · Answer

Thank you for the reply, CJ.

The question of conditionality probably doesn't enter into it as much as you think. I don't see its direct relevance to the more general matching up of tenses.

I didn't really think that far, actually. It didn't occur to me that "the matching up of tenses" wasn't confined to the structure of conditional sentences when I was writing this post.

I have some doubts in the following examples, however.

ex1)

A: I believe that he is a clutch shooter.
B: I would believe that he was a clutch shooter.(Is was correct here?)

ex2)

A: I believe that this was not an isolated incident.
B: I would believe that this was not/had not been an isolated incident.(Which is correct?)

note: Example B's show the speaker's tentativeness in expressing his opinions.

And what's the difference between the following pair?(taken from your examples)

A: You will believe that this succes will not be part of the process.
B: You would believe that this success would not be part of the process.

CalifJim · Answer

jooneyA: -
A: I believe that he is a clutch shooter.
B: I would believe that he was a clutch shooter.(Is was correct here?)

Context is everything, of course, but "was" sounds fine to me.

jooney-
A: I believe that this was not an isolated incident.
B: I would believe that this was not/had not been an isolated incident.(Which is correct?)

Both seem correct to me. Without context, I'd use "was" (in B), but if something in the context indicated that the isolated incident was somehow farther in the past than some other event in the context, "had not been" might work well.

jooneynote: Example B's show the speaker's tentativeness in expressing his opinions.

OK. That's reasonable because of would.

jooneyAnd what's the difference between the following pair?(taken from your examples)

A: You will believe that this success will not be part of the process.
B: You would believe that this success would not be part of the process.

It's not likely that both clauses of these sentences would have the exact same tenses (in practical terms) even though it is possible (theoretically). In making those examples, I simply listed tenses 'blindly', not expecting that all possible combinations would necessarily be idiomatic and/or useful. Leaving that aside, the difference is that A is "confident future" and B is more like "reasonable conclusion (subject to some implicit conditions)".

This gets a little more complex than I think either of us would wish it to be. I think that these interpretations are highly dependent on specific verbs. Other verbs may act differently from "believe" in the same context. For this reason, if I were you, I would not take away any general principles from what I have said about these specific examples.

I have to confess that I'm out of my depth trying to find exact meanings for these rare constructions.

CJ

Jooney · Answer

Thank you very much for your help, CJ.<img class='emoticon' style='Width:19px;Height:19px;' data-delaysrc='https://uat-englishforward-forums-backend.s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/Emoticons/1.gif' src='https://uat-englishforward-forums-backend.s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/Emoticons/1.gif' alt='Emotion: smile'/>

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