tense

Question

Hi,Would you say both versions are acceptable eventhough one may be preferable to the other?1. He heard that the fixing of Joe's walls to his bedroom had gone ahead and that the holes were being (had been being filled) filled. He wasn't very happy with the news.2. He lost his confidence, because he realized that this project had been done (was done) with support of president.

Clive · Accepted Answer

Hi,

Would you say both versions are acceptable even though one may be preferable to the other?

1. He heard that the fixing of Joe's walls to his bedroom had gone ahead and that the holes were being (had been being filled) filled. He wasn't very happy with the news.
. . . walls to his bedroom . . . is awkward.
. . . the fixing of . . . is also less common than simply . . . fixing . . .

He heard that fixing Joe's bedroom walls had gone ahead and that the holes were being filled. He wasn't very happy with the news. OK, pretty idiomatic. Commonly said.

He heard that fixing Joe's bedroom walls had gone ahead and that the holes had been being filled. He wasn't very happy with the news. Very unidiomatic. You would rarely, almost never, hear anyone say this.

2. 'Done' is not a good choice of word here. I suggest 'completed' or 'undertaken'.

He lost his confidence, because he realized that this project had been undertaken with the support of the president.

He lost his confidence, because he realized that this project was undertaken with the support of the president.

Both tenses are OK.

Best wishes, Clive

Anonymous · Answer

Thank you.

You said:

He lost his confidence, because he realized that this project had been undertaken with the support of the president.

He lost his confidence, because he realized that this project was undertaken with the support of the president.

Both tenses are OK.

I understand that I might have needed the definite article "the" before "support" but "the" before "president"? Can I use the title version without "the" here?

Also, why did you say both are OK when the undertaking has probably occurred before him realizing it?

Clive · Answer

Hi,
You said:

He lost his confidence, because he realized that this project had been undertaken with the support of the president.

He lost his confidence, because he realized that this project was undertaken with the support of the president.

Both tenses are OK.

I understand that I might have needed the definite article "the" before "support" but "the" before "president"? Can I use the title version without "the" here? You mean with the support of President. I'd use a capital to indicate it's a title. No. There are lots of people with the title of President, eg Presidents of countries, Presidents of companies, etc.You need to make a specific reference, eg with the support of President Bush, or with the support of the President (in a context where it is understood that you are talking about USA national politics.)

Also, why did you say both are OK when the undertaking has probably occurred before him realizing it? 'Had been undertaken' stresses the timing. 'Was undertaken' doesn't stress it. It's a matter of how much emphasis you want. I'd prefer 'had beeen undertaken', but you asked if both were acceptable.

Best wishes, Clive

Anonymous · Answer

Thank you, again. I think I needed to ask but had decided to skip or postpone it till later and the 'later' seems to be now.

You wrote:

He heard that fixing Joe's bedroom walls had gone ahead and that the holes were being filled. He wasn't very happy with the news. OK, pretty idiomatic. Commonly said.

He heard that fixing Joe's bedroom walls had gone ahead and that the holes had been being filled. He wasn't very happy with the news. Very unidiomatic. You would rarely, almost never, hear anyone say this.

I feel 'had been being filled' was made proper by back-shifting to the past while maintaining the passivity. Why is it unidiomatic to back-shift two verbs in a complex sentence (I think it is a complex sentence). Would you say this kind of thing is better learned by reading more and by getting more exposure to the sentence patterns like this? I think idiomatic expressions sometimes (or possibly always?) stays above the rule of logic(?) or grammar rules?

Clive · Answer

Hi,

You wrote:

He heard that fixing Joe's bedroom walls had gone ahead and that the holes were being filled. He wasn't very happy with the news. OK, pretty idiomatic. Commonly said.

He heard that fixing Joe's bedroom walls had gone ahead and that the holes had been being filled. He wasn't very happy with the news. Very unidiomatic. You would rarely, almost never, hear anyone say this.

I feel 'had been being filled' was made proper by back-shifting to the past while maintaining the passivity. Why is it unidiomatic to back-shift two verbs in a complex sentence (I think it is a complex sentence). It's the continuous nature of the tense that is unidiomatic. Perhaps it is just partly because it makes the whole thing too long to say. Simply that the holes had been filled would be quite acceptable,

Would you say this kind of thing is better learned by reading more and by getting more exposure to the sentence patterns like this? Yes, definitely.

I think idiomatic expressions sometimes (or possibly always?) stays above the rule of logic(?) or grammar rules? Again, definitely.

I've enjoyed our discussion. Perhaps you might consider registering so that, next time, we have some memory of your areas of language interest.

Clive

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