"Tempered with" or "tempered by"

Question

All,"Tempered with" (1 million hits on Google) or "Tempered by" (3 million hits)Are these interchangeable?"Hope tempered by/with realism."??Thanks for any enlightenment!VR/John

Usenet · Accepted Answer

[nq:1]All, "Tempered with" (1 million hits on Google) or "Tempered by" (3 million hits) Are these interchangeable? "Hope tempered by/with realism."[/nq]
That "tempered" might be followed by the words "with" and "by" is correct. But the "correct" (or best) choice is greatly influenced by the other words in the sentence. In your example, I suggest that "by" is the better choice.

GFH

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]All, "Tempered with" (1 million hits on Google) or "Tempered by" (3 million hits) Are these interchangeable?[/nq]
No. Remember John Kennedy's inauguration speech "a new generation...born in this century, tempered by three wars..."

Would it mean the same if he had said "tempered with three wars"?
[nq:1]"Hope tempered by/with realism." ?? Thanks for any enlightenment! VR/ John[/nq]
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Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]All, "Tempered with" (1 million hits on Google) or "Tempered by" (3 million hits) Are these interchangeable? "Hope tempered by/with realism."[/nq]
[nq:1]That "tempered" might be followed by the words "with" and "by" is correct. But the "correct" (or best) choice is greatly influenced by the other words in the sentence. In your example, I suggest that "by" is the better choice. GFH[/nq]
Nope, not interchangeable.
To go into a little more detail about the "influence" of the other words, one would use "by" in reference to the agent of the tempering process, e.g. "He'd been tempered by battle" or "Her life had been tempered by five long years in prison".
One would use "with" when referring to that with which something is combined, e.g. "justice tempered with compassion" or "hope tempered with realism".
Generally* speaking, the meaning of "tempered" is different depending on the construction used. When using "tempered with" (in the combinatory sense), a softening process is *usually* being described. However, when using "tempered by" (as a referent to an agent), a hardening process is *usually being described.
(Note: I purposely emphasized* "*generally*" and "*usually" here because the original poster's example ("hope tempered with realism" obviously contradicts my statement about a "softening" process nevertheless, I believe that "tempered with" is more commonly used in the sense of softening.)

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]All, "Tempered with" (1 million hits on Google) or "Tempered by" (3 million hits) Are these interchangeable?[/nq]
[nq:1]No. Remember John Kennedy's inauguration speech "a new generation...born in this century, tempered by three wars..."[/nq]
Ooops. I think I misquoted.
[nq:1]Would it mean the same if he had said "tempered with three wars"?[/nq]
[nq:2]"Hope tempered by/with realism." ?? Thanks for any enlightenment! VR/ John[/nq]
[nq:1]Remove NOPSAM to email me. Please let me know if you have posted also.[/nq]
Remove NOPSAM to email me. Please let
me know if you have posted also.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]"Tempered with" (1 million hits on Google) or "Tempered by" (3 million hits) Are these interchangeable?[/nq]
No because we can so easily think of idiomatic
examples e.g.
This sword was tempered with special care.
This blade was tempered by John Jones
which are not interchangeable. Use of the
other prepositions in these sentences would
be syntactically wrong.

Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

"Tempered with" or "tempered by"

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