Tarot

Question

How does one pronounce tarot cards? The word tarot.

The dictionary lists two pronunciations, but I wonder if the one with the silent second t isn't a lot better than with the non-silent t.

s/ meirman If you are emailing me please
say if you are posting the same response.
Born west of Pittsburgh Pa. 10 years
Indianapolis, 7 years
Chicago, 6 years
Brooklyn NY 12 years
Baltimore 20 years

Usenet · Accepted Answer

[nq:1]How does one pronounce tarot cards? The word tarot. The dictionary lists two pronunciations, but I wonder if the one with the silent second t isn't a lot better than with the non-silent t.[/nq]
Now, c'mon meirman: you know you're not supposed to do that in here.

"The" dictionary? Which one's that, then?

For what it's worth, Collins only gives the silent-final-t version, which is the only way I've ever heard it.

Cheers, Harvey
Ottawa/Toronto/Edmonton for 30 years;
Southern England for the past 21 years.
(for e-mail, change harvey to whhvs)

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]How does one pronounce tarot cards? The word tarot. The dictionary lists two pronunciations, but I wonder if the one with the silent second t isn't a lot better than with the non-silent t.[/nq]
I've only ever heard it with the silent t , i.e. tarrow.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]On 22 Jun 2004, meirman wrote[/nq]
[nq:2]How does one pronounce tarot cards? The word tarot. The ... t isn't a lot better than with the non-silent t.[/nq]
[nq:1]Now, c'mon meirman: you know you're not supposed to do that in here. "The" dictionary? Which one's that, then? [/nq]
Have you hear of the Unidentified Authorizing Dictionary?

See
umsgid=(Email Removed)&lr=&hl=en

or
http://tinyurl.com/2wrxq
[nq:1]For what it's worth, Collins only gives the silent-final-t version, which is the only way I've ever heard it.[/nq]
I checked every dictionary with an entry for "tarot" that I found at www.onelook.com which I knew to have a paper version. None of them had a pronunciation of "tarot" with a final /t/. The three pronunciations I found were "TA-roh" (where "a" is the vowel of "hat," "tuh-ROH," and "ta-ROH" (that last found only in the dictionary at www.infoplease.com ).

Then I checked in *The Century Dictionary,* an American dictionary of 1895 at www.century-dictionary.com . It gave only the pronunciation "TA-rut." It had a variant spelled "taroc," pronounced "TA-ruck."

Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]On 22 Jun 2004, meirman wrote Now, c'mon meirman: you ... in here. "The" dictionary? Which one's that, then? [/nq]
[nq:2]For what it's worth, Collins only gives the silent-final-t version, which is the only way I've ever heard it.[/nq]
[nq:1]I checked every dictionary with an entry for "tarot" that I found at www.onelook.com which I knew to have a ... dictionary of 1895 at www.century-dictionary.com . It gave only the pronunciation "TA-rut." It had a variant spelled "taroc," pronounced "TA-ruck."[/nq]
The 1890 Webster's International and 1909 New International both have only the pronunciation with the "t" sounded. "Tarok" shows up in the online AHD, with the "k" sounded, of course, and the preceding vowel given as a schwa. As for the loss of the final "t" sound, compare "turbot" and "valet."

Bob Lieblich
And that's tha

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]How does one pronounce tarot cards? The word tarot. The dictionary lists two pronunciations, but I wonder if the one with the silent second t isn't a lot better than with the non-silent t.[/nq]
Who gives a ****. The concept of tarot is too stupid for words;-) fred

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]On 22 Jun 2004, meirman wrote[/nq]
[nq:2]How does one pronounce tarot cards? The word tarot. The ... t isn't a lot better than with the non-silent t.[/nq]
[nq:1]Now, c'mon meirman: you know you're not supposed to do that in here. "The" dictionary? Which one's that, then? [/nq]
This afternoon I visited a friend at work, and though her dictionary was I think a common one, I didn't notice the publisher. I can ask her.
The previous time I looked it up was about 22 years ago, and I don't remember which dictionary it was. It had both pronunciations too.

And just now I see that
Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, Â© 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc. has both pronunciations, with the t it is a particular card game, but without the t, it is "the deck of 78 playing cards including 22 cards depicting vices, virtues, and elemental forces, used in fortunetelling.", which is how she was using it. So I guess she pronounced it wrong and I needn't have apologized.
[nq:1]For what it's worth, Collins only gives the silent-final-t version, which is the only way I've ever heard it.[/nq]
Me too, except the girlfriend I had 24 years ago pronounce it with the final t, and I corrected her. A couple years later I looked it up, and the dictionary gave both pronunciations, so I apologized to her.

Today when we were looking up a couple other words in the dictionary, I looked this one up again and it said the same thing, but by now I realize that some times a listed pronunciation is not, what, valid? Used by educated people? And especially since the word comes from French, it seemed unlikely that the t was originally sounded in English.
The other word I looked up today and 22 years ago was reprise. I had always said it to rhyme with eyes. But that girlfriend said it to rhyme with peas. She's a singer and voice teacher, and it turns out that my pronunciation relates to English law, "Deductions and duties paid yearly out of a manor and lands, as rent charge, rent seck, pensions, annuities, and the like. (Written also reprizes.) Burrill." I barely know what that means.
But when it refers to music, it is pronounced to rhyme with peas, although one dictionary at www.dictionary.com , Source: WordNet Â® 1.6, Â© 1997 Princeton University, has reprise rhyming with eyes, I think, even for music. But nonetheless, in this case my old girlfriend was right.
Ray, I had never heard of the dicttionary you note in your post.

Thanks a lot to both of you, and Bob and Ray.
s/ meirman If you are emailing me please
say if you are posting the same response.
Born west of Pittsburgh Pa. 10 years
Indianapolis, 7 years
Chicago, 6 years
Brooklyn NY 12 years
Baltimore 20 years

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]How does one pronounce tarot cards? The word tarot. The ... t isn't a lot better than with the non-silent t.[/nq]
[nq:1]Who gives a ****.[/nq]
I do, or I wouldn't have asked.
[nq:1]The concept of tarot is too stupid for words;-)[/nq]
It's very stupid, but I'm not sure it's too stupid for words.

[nq:1]fred[/nq]
s/ meirman If you are emailing me please
say if you are posting the same response.
Born west of Pittsburgh Pa. 10 years
Indianapolis, 7 years
Chicago, 6 years
Brooklyn NY 12 years
Baltimore 20 years

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]On 22 Jun 2004, meirman wrote Now, c'mon meirman: you ... in here. "The" dictionary? Which one's that, then? [/nq]
I'm a bit confused. If "the word used to convey the slander was unknown to the English language and was not understood by those to whom it was spoken" I accept that one could still prove slander (depending on the definition in that legal system), but how could there be any damages?
[nq:2]For what it's worth, Collins only gives the silent-final-t version, which is the only way I've ever heard it.[/nq]
[nq:1]I checked every dictionary with an entry for "tarot" that I found at www.onelook.com which I knew to have a ... dictionary of 1895 at www.century-dictionary.com . It gave only the pronunciation "TA-rut." It had a variant spelled "taroc," pronounced "TA-ruck."[/nq]
Thanks again.
s/ meirman If you are emailing me please
say if you are posting the same response.
Born west of Pittsburgh Pa. 10 years
Indianapolis, 7 years
Chicago, 6 years
Brooklyn NY 12 years
Baltimore 20 years

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]Have you hear of the Unidentified Authorizing Dictionary? See[/nq]
[nq:1] umsgid=47dd044c.020519[/nq]
(Email Removed)&lr=&hl=en
[nq:2]or [/nq]
[nq:1]I'm a bit confused. If "the word used to convey the slander was unknown to the English language and was ... one could still prove slander (depending on the definition in that legal system), but how could there be any damages?[/nq]
I'm not sure exactly what you are asking, but I'd like to point out that what you quote above was an argument which the Missouri Supreme Court rejected when they decided the case in question:
From
http://www.law.com/jsp/statearchive.jsp?type=Article&oldid=ZZZTZZTAHVC
'Because the modesty of our lexicographers restrains them from publishing obscene words or from giving the obscene signfication (sic) to words that may be used without conveying any obscenity, it does not follow that they are not English words and not understood by those who hear them; or that chaste words may not be applied so as to be understood in an obscene sense by everyone who hears them.'"

Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]Today when we were looking up a couple other words in the dictionary, I looked this one up again and ... And especially since the word comes from French, it seemed unlikely that the t was originally sounded in English.[/nq]
If a pronunciation appears in a modern general dictionary without any qualifying label (or an obelus, see below), it is a standard pronunciation, that is, one which is known to be used by educated speakers. An example of a qualifying label would be a regional or national label. For example, MWCD11 gives the following pronunciations for "schedule" (I'm putting in the pronunciation in ASCII IPA, but it really isn't important to my point.):

"*1sched·ule /'skE(,)dZul/, -/dZ@l/, Canad also /'SE/-, Britain usually /'SE(,)djul/"
The first pronunciations are standard for American and Canadian speakers, the one following "Canad also" is used by some speakers of Standard Canadian English, and the one following "Britain usually" is that usually spoken by speakers of Standard British English.
*Webster's New International Dictionary of the English Language,* 2nd ed., unabridged, originally published in 1934 and popularly known as "Webster's Second" had an interesting feature: To some pronunciations it added a cross-reference, following which one would find an article entitled "Synopsis of words differently pronounced by different orthoepists." In this article, Webster's Second compared their pronunciations with about six other dictionaries (one of which was The Century Dictionary,* another of which was the OED referred to there as *The New English Dictionary). It did this for pronunciations about there was some disagreement (including "niche" and "buoy," as it happens).
Some dictionaries give the foreign pronunciation for a word, the purpose for which, I presume, is that some educated English speakers use that pronunciation: A dictionary might have "Fr." for the typical French pronunciation of a word, for example.
There is one thing which should be kept in mind about the *Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary* at www.m-w.com and MWCD11: They use the symbol "÷" (the division sign, but which for this purpose called an "obelus") to designate pronunciations which are often used by educated speakers but which are controversial. The "NUKE-yuh-ler" pronunciation of "nuclear," for example, is preceded by an obelus. So is the three-syllable pronunciation of "poinsettia" the pronunciation I prefer: It always annoyed me when Johnny Carson tried to get other people to use the four-syllable pronunciation.

Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com

Tarot

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