"Taking It In The Shorts"

Question

Sandy Berger inspired me to try to find the derivation of the phrase, "Taking it in the shorts." I have looked everywhere, to no avail. Any ideas?

Usenet · Accepted Answer

[nq:1]Sandy Berger inspired me to try to find the derivation of the phrase, "Taking it in the shorts." I have looked everywhere, to no avail. Any ideas?[/nq]
A quick look at http://www.wordwizard.com (search entry: shorts) comes up with this suggestion (attributed to Leif Thorvaldson) that:
"..it possibly derives from US stockmarket parlance. 'Short selling' is the strategy which involves selling shares you don't yet own in the expectation that the price will fall and you can buy them back at a lower price later (thus making a profit)."

Leif Thorvaldson goes on to suggest that:
"..the US stockmarket crash in 1929 was primarily due to so many people holding "a short position" in the market. When their notes were unexpectedly called, they didn't have the case to buy them resulting (in the)loss of large amounts of money. I'm guessing that the expression originated with the loss of money in "the shorts" market."

Christopher ('CJ')
(Change 3032 to 77 for e-mail)

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]Sandy Berger inspired me to try to find the derivation ... shorts." I have looked everywhere, to no avail. Any ideas?[/nq]
[nq:1]A quick look at http://www.wordwizard.com (search entry: shorts) comes up with this suggestion (attributed to Leif Thorvaldson) that: "..it possibly ... of large amounts of money. I'm guessing that the expression originated with the loss of money in "the shorts" market."[/nq]
That explanation does not convince me; it seems to ignore the obvious physical interpretation, as mentioned in the other entry at that site, which tells of a military encounter with a booby trap in 1968:

"The booby trap, a frightening device, the first ones we encountered were small and mainly used to maim. Trip one and get your leg blown off, or the Grunts worse nightmare take it in the shorts"

It is a common theme on 'send in your amusing home videos' TV programmes for the humour of a clip to derive from a man getting hit (by a ball, a bat, a child, street furniture, etc etc) between the legs. Given that AmE 'shorts' = BrE 'underpants' (right?) it seems to me highly likely that 'take in the shorts' comes from this kind of injury, so 'to suffer painfully'.
Group-googling(*) finds financial references but more that are not, it looks like.
(*): searching google's Usernet archive, rather than its Web index-cache-thing
ps Sandy Berger?

Larry Lard
Replies to group please

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]A quick look at http://www.wordwizard.com (search entry: shorts) comes up ... originated with the loss of money in "the shorts" market."[/nq]
[nq:1]That explanation does not convince me; it seems to ignore the obvious physical interpretation, as mentioned in the other entry ... financial references but more that are not, it looks like. (*): searching google's Usernet archive, rather than its Web index-cache-thing[/nq]
It perfectly possible for a phrase to originate in specialist circles, and then to acquire a new assumed origin (or a new meaning) when it is taken up more generally.

Peter Duncanson
UK
(posting from u.c.l.e)

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]It perfectly possible for a phrase to originate in specialist circles, and then to acquire a new assumed origin (or a new meaning) when it is takenup more generally.[/nq]
Yes, but considering the nature of taking or receiving punishment or severe damage, the metaphor here reminds me more of "the short and curlies", which means, of course something is going to hit all too close to home.

Usenet · Answer

I think for me. I have a idea for what that means. In French. we use to say. " La main pris dans les culottes" or in english. For me. " Hand in the shorts" Caugh in strike

Usenet · Answer

On 23 Jul, in article

[nq:1]Group-googling(*) finds financial references but more that are not, it looks like. (*): searching google's Usernet archive, rather than its Web index-cache-thing[/nq]
I tend to write Deja^WGoogling for this activity, since it perpetuates the name of the original searchable archive DejaNews, bought by and incorporated into Google

Brian {Hamilton Kelly} (Email Removed) "I don't use Linux. I prefer to use an OS supported by a large multi- national vendor, with a good office suite, excellent network/internet software and decent hardware support."

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]Sandy Berger inspired me to try to find the derivation ... shorts." I have looked everywhere, to no avail. Any ideas?[/nq]
[nq:1]A quick look at http://www.wordwizard.com (search entry: shorts) comes up with this suggestion (attributed to Leif Thorvaldson) that: "..it possibly ... of large amounts of money. I'm guessing that the expression originated with the loss of money in "the shorts" market."[/nq]
I don't think this is quite it, though the presence of short sellers in a market does lead to another colorful expression, "squeezing the shorts" (bidding up the price of a stock to where the short sellers are hit with margin calls; when they buy in to close their short positions, it drives the price of the stock up further).

I think the term simply refers to the painful consequences of getting the sensitive parts of one's anatomy that are hidden behind one's undershorts bruised.
And the market crash in 1929 is generally attributed to a panic among overextended bulls, who had bought heavily on margin (not sold short). A panic among the bears generally causes a wild rise in prices, not a wild drop.

Chris Green

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]It perfectly possible for a phrase to originate in specialist ... (or a newmeaning) when it is taken up more generally.[/nq]
[nq:1]Yes, but considering the nature of taking or receiving punishment or severe damage, the metaphor here reminds me more of "the short and curlies", which means, of course something is going to hit all too close to home.[/nq]
What the other Peter said. A phrase can have one origin and another assumed origin which helps to make it popular and spreads it outside of its original context. The fact that it reminds you more of one meaning than another says nothing about the origin of the phrase. People who hear the phrase "fine-toothed comb" and later use the nonsensical phrase "tooth-combing" are evidence that people do not need to understand a phrase in order to spread or popularize it. The answer to which explanation is definitive cannot be found in analysis of the phrase and how it is now used, it can only be found in historical research to find the first recorded usage.

Of course you can speculate all you want, until the cows come home in fact, whatever that means (now or originally).

Martin Willett
http://mwillett.org/

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]meaning)[/nq]
[nq:2]Yes, but considering the nature of taking or receiving punishment ... something is going to hit all too close to home.[/nq]
[nq:1]What the other Peter said. A phrase can have one origin and another assumed origin which helps to make it ... course you can speculate all you want, until the cows come home in fact, whatever that means (now or originally).[/nq]
Can't say that I have much faith in Dictionary stories of the origins of phases, since I don't have any way of judging the quality or quantity of the research.
As for "fine-tooth(or toothed) comb", my siblings and I all became infected with lice when we were small. With much disgust and trepidation (What will the neighbors say? What will the neighbors?) Mom tackled our scalps with a great deal of combing (fine-toothed combs had two sides, in my memory one side having the teeth only slightly larger and further apart than the other, and seemed always to be black.) Not to mention the tar-smelling soap she used. Could hardly get a decent lather up.
Now, I don't spend a lot of time looking up the history of phrases on the internet. I think my contributions can be ignored or taken with the same grain of salt with which one consumes the words of the "experts".

I always assumed "Bill Bailey", taking it on the lam, was aware that with little coin he would be sleeping in lousy conditions.

(I know we discussed "taking it on the lam" some time ago. To my surprise, a film from the early '30s repeatedly used the expression "taking it on the limb." "I Am (or Was) a Fugitive from a Chain Gang". Now I know there will be those who will look up the appropriate verb and will post it here.)

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]A quick look at http://www.wordwizard.com (search entry: shorts) comes up ... originated with the loss of money in "the shorts" market."[/nq]
[nq:1]That explanation does not convince me; it seems to ignore the obvious physical interpretation, as mentioned in the other entry at that site, which tells of a military encounter with a booby trap in 1968:[/nq]
Well, I can verify the expression was in common use long before 1968.
dg

"Taking It In The Shorts"

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