0
Usenet Posted 22 years ago
Usage
Syntax or semantics?
I've been semi-lurking here for a while and I thought I'd come in with a bit of flame-bait...
Does 'good' syntax really matter? I've seen discussion here about Truss, for example, which got rather pedantic about an 'only' that was placed somewhere it shouldn't, and it occurs to me that it's very easy to become rather obsessive about 'correct' grammar. So I suppose my question is: what's more important, syntax or semantics?
Of course I understand that clearly thought-through grammar is important to make meaning clear and resolve potential ambiguity. But as a writer, I like to have the freedom to structure a sentence more liberally. I used to be an actor, and I am always very aware of the spoken pattern of the words I'm writing, and for me this takes precedence over 'correct' punctuation or other grammar. As an example, I had an interesting discussion not so long ago about the 'rhetorical' question mark, as in 'It's a nice day, isn't it?', in which almost everyone else insisted the question mark was the only correct punctuation, but where I was convinced that a full stop is more true to the speech pattern.
I'm by no means advocating a complete free-for-all in written text - after all, spoken language is full of grammatical structure - just questioning the value of proscriptive rules. And given that my education was in mathematics, I'm probably more logically-minded than the average person, so I can be one hell of a pedant too...
Danny
Try the TimeHunt Christmas CrossCube at
http://www.timehunt.com/xmas2003.html
Does 'good' syntax really matter? I've seen discussion here about Truss, for example, which got rather pedantic about an 'only' that was placed somewhere it shouldn't, and it occurs to me that it's very easy to become rather obsessive about 'correct' grammar. So I suppose my question is: what's more important, syntax or semantics?
Of course I understand that clearly thought-through grammar is important to make meaning clear and resolve potential ambiguity. But as a writer, I like to have the freedom to structure a sentence more liberally. I used to be an actor, and I am always very aware of the spoken pattern of the words I'm writing, and for me this takes precedence over 'correct' punctuation or other grammar. As an example, I had an interesting discussion not so long ago about the 'rhetorical' question mark, as in 'It's a nice day, isn't it?', in which almost everyone else insisted the question mark was the only correct punctuation, but where I was convinced that a full stop is more true to the speech pattern.
I'm by no means advocating a complete free-for-all in written text - after all, spoken language is full of grammatical structure - just questioning the value of proscriptive rules. And given that my education was in mathematics, I'm probably more logically-minded than the average person, so I can be one hell of a pedant too...
Danny
Try the TimeHunt Christmas CrossCube at
http://www.timehunt.com/xmas2003.html
Top answer
[nq:1]I've been semi-lurking here for a while and I thought I'd come in with a bit of flame-bait... Does 'good' ... mathematics, I'm probably more logically-minded than the average person, so I can be one **** of a pedant too...
- [nq:1]I've been semi-lurking here for a while and I thought I'd come in with a bit of flame-bait...
- Does 'good' ...
- mathematics, I'm probably more logically-minded than the average person, so I can be one **** of a pedant too...
- Danny[/nq] I'm also primarily a writer, and I think you're generally correct.
- Punctuation and grammar take a back seat when matters of meaning, rhythm, sound, and flow are involved.
Get the Weekly English Kit 📬
New words, one handy idiom, and a 2-minute quiz — delivered to your inbox to keep your streak alive.
51 Answers
0
[nq:1]I've been semi-lurking here for a while and I thought I'd come in with a bit of flame-bait... Does 'good' ... mathematics, I'm probably more logically-minded than the average person, so I can be one **** of a pedant too... Danny[/nq]
I'm also primarily a writer, and I think you're generally correct. Punctuation and grammar take a back seat when matters of meaning, rhythm, sound, and flow
I'm also primarily a writer, and I think you're generally correct. Punctuation and grammar take a back seat when matters of meaning, rhythm, sound, and flow
00
(snip)
[nq:1]I used to be an actor, and I am always very aware of the spoken pattern of the words I'm ... the only correct punctuation, but where I was convinced that a full stop is more true to the speech pattern.[/nq]
I think I'd distinguish the 'rhetorical' falling stress from a genuine negative question by using an exclamation point rather than a period. Likewise for the 'sarcastic' va
[nq:1]I used to be an actor, and I am always very aware of the spoken pattern of the words I'm ... the only correct punctuation, but where I was convinced that a full stop is more true to the speech pattern.[/nq]
I think I'd distinguish the 'rhetorical' falling stress from a genuine negative question by using an exclamation point rather than a period. Likewise for the 'sarcastic' va
00
[nq:1]Does 'good' syntax really matter? I've seen discussion here about Truss, for example, which got rather pedantic about an 'only' ... easy to become rather obsessive about 'correct' grammar. So I suppose my question is: what's more important, syntax or semantics?[/nq]
This is a false question. Both are of great importance. It is an error to suppose that one is important while the other is
This is a false question. Both are of great importance. It is an error to suppose that one is important while the other is
00
Castiglione contends that "writing is a kind of speech." I think that it would depend on your audience. Some writing and speaking are lost on some audiences. In the main, however, I agree that grammar considerations will very often stifle good writing, especially with students.
Hank
Hank
00
[nq:1]I think it's a big mistake to suppose that written English is merely a transcription of spoken English. It isn't. If you try to write merely by transcribing your ordinary speech, you will produce some truly awful writing.[/nq]
It depends on what you mean by "ordinary speech", and how clear and precise that is with any given person.
[nq:1]Written English is something very different fr
It depends on what you mean by "ordinary speech", and how clear and precise that is with any given person.
[nq:1]Written English is something very different fr
00
[nq:1]Castiglione contends that "writing is a kind of speech." I think that it would depend on your audience. Some writing and speaking are lost on some audiences. In the main, however, I agree that grammar considerations will very often stifle good writing, especially with students.[/nq]
I have more than 30 years of experience with students, and I find this last statement astonishing.
I d
I have more than 30 years of experience with students, and I find this last statement astonishing.
I d
00
[nq:2]Castiglione contends that "writing is a kind of speech." I ... considerations will very often stifle good writing, especially with students.[/nq]
[nq:1]I have more than 30 years of experience with students, and I find this last statement astonishing. I don't think ... knowledge of grammar. The common problem is an inadequate command of grammatical conventions and of the proper use of wor
[nq:1]I have more than 30 years of experience with students, and I find this last statement astonishing. I don't think ... knowledge of grammar. The common problem is an inadequate command of grammatical conventions and of the proper use of wor
00
That is very true. Most students are inadequate in their command of and use of grammar. This inadequacy makes them so fearful that they are not able to present ideas for fear of being "caught" in a mistake. Surely in 30 years or so you have seen this happen.
Hank
Hank
00
Yes, I know what you mean. It does not follow that knowing grammar well will make a better writer. Grammar, however, applied correctly will generally make writing clearer.
Hank
Hank
00
I agree that writing is not simply a transcription of speaking. It can be, but would be confusing. What is present while speaking i.e. gestures, postures, hand positions, and facial expressions, would not be present in writing unless they were included in dialog or stage directions or the like. Hartwell considered native speakers of a language innately accurate in grammar rules even though they co
0
Related Questions