Synechdoche and metonym

Question

The difference between a metonym and synecdoche has never been satisfactorily explained to me. Are they clear cut or are they practically synonymous? The various definitions I have read seem to be inconsistent.

I'd be grateful for a tiny chink of enlightenment. Ta.

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[nq:1]The difference between a metonym and synecdoche has never been satisfactorily explained to me. Are they clear cut or are they practically synonymous? The various definitions I have read seem to be inconsistent. I'd be grateful for a tiny ***** of enlightenment. Ta.[/nq]
They might very well overlap. Synecdoche is where a part is used to mean the whole, or vice versa. In metonymy, one aspect or associated object or quality is used instead of the thing meant.

For example, "the press" is a metonym of the newspaper industry (i.e. the actual printing machines standing for the newspapers and journalists) but it may also be used synechdochically to mean "the press, television, and the news media generally".

-- http://www.dacha.freeuk.com/photo/0z04-0.htm Llanberis Pass How insignificant are man's endeavours!

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"David" (Email Removed) a écrit dans le message de news:(Email Removed)...
[nq:2]The difference between a metonym and synecdoche has never been ... I'd be grateful for a tiny ***** of enlightenment. Ta.[/nq]
[nq:1]They might very well overlap. Synecdoche is where a part is used to mean the whole, or vice versa. In ... synechdochically to mean "the press, television, and the news media generally". -- http://www.dacha.freeuk.com/photo/0z04-0.htm Llanberis Pass How insignificant are man's endeavours![/nq]
<-- synechdoche = part for the whole and vice versa eg the crown for the king, the hand for help, etc. I have the impression that the synechdoche is just an instance of metonymy , the latter being a larger process or device for replacing names by others to which they are associated. Just a thought. Patrick Lecordier -- "I don't need time. What I need is a deadline." Duke Ellington Websites:( / ) ( http://perso.wanadoo.fr/patrick.lecordier/ )

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[nq:1]"David" (Email Removed) a écrit dans le message de news:(Email Removed)...[/nq]
[nq:2]They might very well overlap. Synecdoche is where a part ... to mean "the press, television, and the news media generally".[/nq]
[nq:1]<-- synechdoche = part for the whole and vice versa eg the crown for the king, the hand for help, ... latter being a larger process or device for replacing names by others to which they are associated. Just a thought.[/nq]
I wouldn't regard hand as a synechdoche for help. Surely that is a metonym?

Similarly, I'm not certain that crown is necessarily a synecdoche for the king.

Perhaps the definition is being stretched beyond its intended reach?

-- http://www.dacha.freeuk.com/joachim/15-0.htm "I think we may have a bit of a problem," Joachim said, as he stepped out of the machine and saw himself sitting on a rock...

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[nq:2]"David" (Email Removed) a écrit dans le message de news:(Email ... by others to which they are associated. Just a thought.[/nq]
[nq:1]I wouldn't regard hand as a synechdoche for help. Surely that is a metonym? Similarly, I'm not certain that crown is necessarily a synecdoche for the king. Perhaps the definition is being stretched beyond its intended reach?[/nq]
"hands", synechdoche for "sailors" as in "All hands on deck!" (synechdoche - sailors have hands after all)? --> "pen" and "sword", metonyms for literature and the army as in "The pen is mightier than the sword" (metonymy - difficult to see a pen as a part of lit.)? --> "crown", metonym for the "Monarchy" (monarchy is a concept, too. Do concepts have parts?) ? Surely a crown is NOT a part of any king or queen. So "crown" can only be a metonym. Well, that was just a second thought induced by what you said.But is it any clearer in my mind? I am still doubtful. Synechdoque probably applies more to concrete things than to abstract ones..

-- "I don't need time. What I need is a deadline." Duke Ellington Websites:( http://www.erp.oissel.onac.org/anglais/ ) ( http://perso.wanadoo.fr/patrick.lecordier/ )

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]I wouldn't regard hand as a synechdoche for help. Surely ... Perhaps the definition is being stretched beyond its intended reach?[/nq]
[nq:1]"hands", synechdoche for "sailors" as in "All hands on deck!" (synechdoche - sailors have hands after all)?[/nq]
Synecdoche is not really a substitution of one term for another.

Consider:

"The General took the city after a hard battle." Here "the General" represents the army which he leads.

Similarly,

"Driving along the road, we found ourselves stopped by the might of Her Majesty's Armed Forces." Here, the "Armed Forces" refers to a solitary corporal at a road checkpoint.

In the former example, the part represents the whole, in the latter, the whole is used to represent the part.

-- http://www.dacha.freeuk.com/aureole/0-alien.htm I shot a Bug-Eyed Monster, With my Bug-Eyed Monster gun;

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]Synecdoche is not really a substitution of one term for another. Consider: "The General took the city after a hard ... In the former example, the part represents the whole, in the latter, the whole is used to represent the part.[/nq]
one of his glorious essay-ettes on a related theme; his teacher told his class all about "the container for the thing contained" (e.g. a strong cup of coffee) but said that there were very few examples of the converse - i.e. "the thing contained for the container". Thurber offered the concept of an infuriated wife saying to her husband, as she removed a bottle from the fridge: "Shut up, or I'll hit you with the milk!" The teacher was apparently not impressed. -- Molly Sarchasm: The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it. My Reply-To address *is* valid, though may not remain so for ever.

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[nq:1] one of his glorious essay-ettes on a related theme; his teacher told his class all about "the container for ... a bottle from the fridge: "Shut up, or I'll hit you with the milk!" The teacher was apparently not impressed.[/nq]
Quite common with liquids, and with finely ground or powdery solids.

-- http://www.dacha.freeuk.com/joachim/14-0.htm "Note that one night too, the three blutwursts for Lohengrin's five very sick swans even got ate by nine. That's ten incidents!"

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Apologies for badgering on about this synecdoche/metonymy thing but...

Take 'the crown' as a figure for 'monarchy'. Would you say that it was a synecdoche because it is a part of the ceremonial accoutrements of royalty or is it an attribute of royalty and hence, presumably, a metonym?

Simon

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Simon Taylor | uk.culture.language.english in
[nq:1]Apologies for badgering on about this synecdoche/metonymy thing but... Take 'the crown' as a figure for 'monarchy'. Would you say ... a part of the ceremonial accoutrements of royalty or is it an attribute of royalty and hence, presumably, a metonym?[/nq]
I would say the latter.

metonymy (U) (technical) the act of referring to sth by the name of sth else that is closely connected with it, for example using the White House for the US president (Oxford Adv. Learner's Dictionary)

metonymy a figure of speech consisting of the use of the name of one thing for that of another of which it is an attribute or with which it is associated (as "crown" in "lands belonging to the crown") And here some examples of synecdoche from the Merriam-Webster online dictionary. (Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary) synecdoche a figure of speech by which a part is put for the whole (as fifty sail for fifty ships), the whole for a part (as society for high society), the species for the genus (as cutthroat for assassin), the genus for the species (as a creature for a man), or the name of the material for the thing made (as boards for stage) (Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary)

HIH

-- Enrico C ~ No native speaker

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Simon Taylor | uk.culture.language.english in
[nq:1]Apologies for badgering on about this synecdoche/metonymy thing but... Take 'the crown' as a figure for 'monarchy'. Would you say ... a part of the ceremonial accoutrements of royalty or is it an attribute of royalty and hence, presumably, a metonym?[/nq]
I would say the latter.

synecdoche a figure of speech by which a part is put for the whole (as fifty sail for fifty ships), the whole for a part (as society for high society), the species for the genus (as cutthroat for assassin), the genus for the species (as a creature for a man), or the name of the material for the thing made (as boards for stage) (Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary)

metonymy (U) (technical) the act of referring to sth by the name of sth else that is closely connected with it, for example using the White House for the US president (Oxford Adv. Learner's Dictionary)

metonymy a figure of speech consisting of the use of the name of one thing for that of another of which it is an attribute or with which it is associated (as "crown" in "lands belonging to the crown") (Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary)

HIH

-- Enrico C ~ No native speaker

Synechdoche and metonym

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