SVOCC constructs

Hi Paco,

They both sound very odd! I don't get the meaning clearly. I suggest you try to say it another way.

[1] The smith hammered the metal flat hot.
[2] The smith hammered the metal hot flat.

Clive

PS If Japanese dogs bow-wow, do Chinese dogs kow-tow? (Ha-ha)

Hi Clive

Thank you for the reply. They both sound odd to you. Huurm… actually I found this sentence in a grammar article written by Japanese scholars of the English language studies, where they discussed SVOC patterns to be read as resultiatve and depictive constructions. They say [1] is right and [2] is wrong but gives no reason to it. It is why I am asking the question above. But if th

Hello, Paco.

What does "metal flat" mean in your sentences, pelase? Is "flat" a noun, does anything called a "metal flat" exist? Or is "flat" an adjective used to describe part of the result of hammering a piece of metal?

Thanks in advance,

Miriam

Hello Miriam

I don't know the exact sense of "The smith hammered the metal flat hot", but as for "The smith hammered the metal flat", I understand that the sense is "The smith hammered the metal until it became flat".

best regards

paco

I think [url=http://www.icsi.berkeley.edu/~kay/bcg/II-Pred.html] this article[/url] is not bad to see an overall picture of secondary predicate uses.

paco

Hi,

1] The smith hammered the metal flat hot. If I had to try to find a meaning here, I would see the smith (normally, 'blacksmith') hammering the metal until it was flat, while it was hot. It does sound, and particularly look, odd.

[2] The smith hammered the metal hot flat. Here, I see the blacksmith hammering the flat

Hello Clive

They give only this one as the example of doubled complement constructions. I parsed it as "The smith hammered the metal into a plate while it was still hot". But I am not sure. What do you take as its sense if you are forced to interpret it?

paco

Hi,

I take the same meaning as you do.

Did you read my earlier reply? Part of what I tried to say there was that you could interpet the grammar in example 2 the same way. In other words, the grammar would be correct but the meaning would be odd.

How about 'she burned the meat black sick'? = The fire made the meat black. She was sick while she did it. (Not a wonderful e

Clive

Thank you. So can we take it simply as an elided form of "The smith hammered the metal flat (while it was) hot"? If so, I think, "hot" should inevitably come after "flat". Am I right?

paco

[PS] An additional thought. I suppose you say "He hammered the metal until it got flat while it was hot" rather than "He hammered the metal while it was hot until it got flat".

Hi,

So can we take it as an elided form of "The smith hammered the metal flat (while it was) hot"? Yes. Or, even possibly, 'while he was hot'



If so, I think, "hot" should inevitably come after "flat". I think you could say 'He hammered the hot metal flat.' It just reduces the sense of