Survey of light and dark l in English

Question

I am currently conducting a tiny (20-question) online survey on the distribution of light and dark l in English, and hope that you and/or your students will consider taking it. The URL for the survey is:

http://www.survey.net.nz/survey.php?531dc45327c3770612ec4ff1c4dca159

If anyone is interested, I will post a summary of the results once a sufficient # of responses has come in.
Thanks for your help,
Corrine

Usenet · Accepted Answer

[nq:1]I am currently conducting a tiny (20-question) online survey on the distribution of light and dark l in English, and hope that you and/or your students will consider taking it.[/nq]
What do you mean by "light and dark l"?

Mike Nitabach

Usenet · Answer

Michael Nitabach filted:
[nq:2]I am currently conducting a tiny (20-question) online survey on ... hope that you and/or your students will consider taking it.[/nq]
[nq:1]What do you mean by "light and dark l"?[/nq]
"Dark L" is the semi-vowel heard comprising unstressed syllables, such as in words like "tickle" and "gravel"..
"Light L" is (I think) the contrasting form usually called "clear L"..

"Lite L" is the same thing as "Dark L" but with fewer carbohydrates..r

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]I am currently conducting a tiny (20-question) online survey on ... hope that you and/or your students will consider taking it.[/nq]
[nq:1]What do you mean by "light and dark l"?[/nq]
Corrine probably means what in English are called "clear and dark l." A "dark l" is accompanied by velarization ("tell"), a "clear l" is not ("leave").

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]What do you mean by "light and dark l"?[/nq]
[nq:1]Corrine probably means what in English are called "clear and dark l." A "dark l" is accompanied by velarization ("tell"), a "clear l" is not ("leave").[/nq]
It seems there's at least one in-between one, too. I'm sure my 'tell'-l is darker than my 'leave'-l, but not what most British listeners would identify as a real Liverpool-style dark one, or the one many British speakers pronounce in effect as -w.

In the survey which doesn't seem to me likely to produce much admissible evidence I answered "light" for each example because I don't use the really dark version; but that was misleading, as some people, e.g. Welsh speakers, use a really light one everywhere. (See the bizarre compromise version used by Michael Howard, leader of the Conservative Party.)
Mike.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]Corrine probably means what in English are called "clear and darkl." A "dark l" is accompanied by velarization ("tell"), a "clear l" isnot ("leave").[/nq]
[nq:1]It seems there's at least one in-between one, too. I'm sure my 'tell'-l is darker than my 'leave'-l, but not ... the really dark version; but that was misleading, as some people, e.g. Welsh speakers, use a really light one everywhere.[/nq]
There's a lot of dialectal variation in just how "dark" (i.e. velarised) the different allophones are. I think that, as you say, Welsh English doesn't really have a difference and uses a very "clear" sound everywhere; on the other hand in Cockney and Estuary English the dark one has become so dark that it's turned into (w) or something similar.
I think the survey is interested in where people use the different allophones, rather than how dark they are. For example, for "mailer" I think they're interested in whether people use the dark one, based on analogy with "mail", or whether they use the clear one because the /l/ is before a vowel. (I'm in the latter category here.) One problem is that, for me anyway, it's really not easy to tell. I spent ages over "fallout", and I'm still not sure.
[nq:1](See the bizarre compromise version used by Michael Howard, leader of the Conservative Party.)[/nq]
See
http://www.guardian.co.uk/notesandqueries/query/0,5753,-1839,00.html for more on that.
Jonathan

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]Michael Nitabach filted:[/nq]
[nq:2]What do you mean by "light and dark l"?[/nq]
[nq:1]"Dark L" is the semi-vowel heard comprising unstressed syllables, such as in words like "tickle" and "gravel".. "Light L" is (I think) the contrasting form usually called "clear L".. "Lite L" is the same thing as "Dark L" but with fewer carbohydrates..r[/nq]
This is a new definition for me. I have always taken 'dark L' to be the one formed near the back of the throat and mainly used at the end of syllables 'will, bill, etc.', although I would agree it is used in 'tickle'. It's not as far back as the Russian L, but tends that way. The light L is not really a lateral (as it is often described), but is mostly formed with the tip of the tongue around that ridge (alveolar?). Then there is the palatal L used only in words like 'million'.

Rob Bannister

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]Corrine probably means what in English are called "clear and ... accompanied by velarization ("tell"), a "clear l" is not ("leave").[/nq]
[nq:1]It seems there's at least one in-between one, too. I'm sure my 'tell'-l is darker than my 'leave'-l, but not ... use a really light one everywhere. (See the bizarre compromise version used by Michael Howard, leader of the Conservative Party.)[/nq]
I found that I too answered 'light' to most of those. I based it on whether the tip of my tongue clearly touched the ridge behind my top teeth. Which is odd, given that my native dialect, Brigstow, automatically inserts a dark L anywhere that it can.

-ler

Survey of light and dark l in English

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