Superlative

Question

Hi,Because Ms. Houston had been credited on previous recordings, including a 1984 duet with Teddy Pendergrass, she was ruled ineligible for the best new artist category of the Grammy Awards; the eligibility criteria have since been changed. But with “Saving All My Love for You,” she won her first Grammy award, for best female pop vocal performance, an award she would win twice more.The definite article is there in the first superlative example, whereas it's missing/omitted in the second one.They both mean that she was better than all the others in those categories, and yet the was used in the first example only. Why wasn't the inserted in the second superlative example?  I'd appreciate your help.

Anonymous · Accepted Answer

This is the kind of article question where the only real answer is "That's just the way things are said in English and you have to learn them by experience."  Here "the" could have been omitted from the first phrase and put in for the second and it would still be grammatical, but the way it's written is best for the context.  This can't really be explained grammatically - that's just the way things are said in English.

CalifJim · Answer

jooneyWhy wasn't the inserted in the second superlative example?

Here is a possible explanation, and it has nothing to do with superlatives.

"Best New Artist" and "Best Female Pop Vocal Performance" may be thought of as titles (of categories or awards). For this reason I'm going to capitalize them in the following explanation. It will emphasize their usage as titles.

In the first case the title (Best New Artist) is used as a modifier of category, so the goes with category, not with the title.

ineligible for the category called "Best New Artist" ~ ineligible for the "Best New Artist" category.

You could not have ineligible for category here. It would leave category without a determiner.
You get the same problem no matter what modifier you add, so you can't have ineligible for Best New Artist category either, any more than you can have ineligible for well-known category. No determiner.

Note that the is not associated with the superlative best here. That's why I don't think superlatives have anything to do with the puzzling situation you've brought to our attention with your post.
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In the second case the title (Best Female Pop Vocal Performance) is not a modifier. The title itself is the object of the preposition for. As such it acts much like a proper noun, which doesn't need a determiner, and in fact shouldn't have one.

You can have She won an award for Best Female Pop Vocal Performance. award already has a determiner (an), and, as mentioned above, the title doesn't need one.

You can also have, following the pattern of the previous example, She won the Best Female Pop Vocal Performance award, i.e., won the award called "Best Female Pop Vocal Performance".

You would not have, however, She won Best Female Pop Vocal Performance award because Best Female Pop Vocal Performance would be a modifier of award there, and award would be left without a determiner.
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I don't guarantee that this is the best possible explanation, nor the most coherent (You may have to read through it several times), but it happens to be what came to mind when I read the passage.

CJ

Jooney · Answer

Thank you for your answer, CJ.

So your answer can be summarized as follows:

1. Titles that start with superlatives are nouns.
2. A noun can be either a modifier or the head of a noun phrase.

ex)
A: a flower seller (modifier)
B: a flower (head)

3. When functioning as a modifier, its head noun may need a determiner.

I have a question here. In the original example, the noun "category" is a count noun and that's the reason why you need a determiner, correct? And why do you need "the" instead of "a"?

4. When functioning as the head, it may need a determiner.

As for the second example, a determiner isn't necessary because the noun(title) behaves like a proper noun, which can fill a noun slot alone.

Did I understand you correctly?

CalifJim · Answer

1. Titles that start with superlatives are nouns.
Titles in general can be any kind of phrase or even a whole sentence.
Whether they contain superlatives is irrelevant in my opinion.

2. A noun can be either a modifier or the head of a noun phrase.
At least. A noun can also be other things.

ex)
A: a flower seller (modifier) Yes.
B: a flower (head) Yes.

3. When functioning as a modifier, its head noun may need a determiner.
The noun needs a determiner under certain conditions, but not when functioning as a modifier. When you have two nouns in a row the first normally functions as a modifier - thought process, biology student, etc. It is the head noun, not the modifying noun, that may need a determiner.

I have a question here. In the original example, the noun "category" is a count noun and that's the reason why you need a determiner, correct? Yes.

And why do you need "the" instead of "a"? You don't in the general case. The writer knew that the noun phrase referred to something unique, so he used "the".

4. When functioning as the head, it may need a determiner.
The head noun normally has a determiner when it's a common, concrete, countable noun in the singular.
Proper nouns, abstract nouns, uncountable nouns, and plurals are seen without determiners.

As for the second example, a determiner isn't necessary because the noun(title) behaves like a proper noun, which can fill a noun slot alone. Correct.

CJ

Jooney · Answer

Thank you very much, CJ.  I really learn a lot from you! <img class='emoticon' style='Width:19px;Height:19px;' data-delaysrc='https://uat-englishforward-forums-backend.s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/Emoticons/1.gif' src='https://uat-englishforward-forums-backend.s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/Emoticons/1.gif' alt='Emotion: smile'/>

Superlative

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