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Maple Posted 20 years ago
Grammar
“Substitute” – who take whose place?
(1) Margarine can substitute for butter in this recipe.
(2) Butter can be substituted with margarine in this recipe.
(3) Margarine can be substituted for butter in this recipe.
Can all these sentences be read as “margarine can take the place of butter in this recipe.”?
Instead of active/passive voice, is the preposition the mainest factor to determine the direction of relationship? Are there many verbs like “substitute” in this regard?
Thank you.
(2) Butter can be substituted with margarine in this recipe.
(3) Margarine can be substituted for butter in this recipe.
Can all these sentences be read as “margarine can take the place of butter in this recipe.”?
Instead of active/passive voice, is the preposition the mainest factor to determine the direction of relationship? Are there many verbs like “substitute” in this regard?
Thank you.
Top answer
>the mainest factor the main factor, the most important factor 1-3 seem OK to me.
- >the mainest factor the main factor, the most important factor 1-3 seem OK to me.
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25 Answers
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>the mainest factor
the main factor, the most important factor
1-3 seem OK to me.
the main factor, the most important factor
1-3 seem OK to me.
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If the main factor were the preposition, how would we understand "margarine can substitute butter in this recipe"?
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Hi,
Butter can be substituted with margarine in this recipe
'With' is substandard.
Consider Google:
substitute with = 509,000 hits
substitute for = 77,800,000 hits
Best wishes, Clive
Butter can be substituted with margarine in this recipe
'With' is substandard.
Consider Google:
substitute with = 509,000 hits
substitute for = 77,800,000 hits
Best wishes, Clive
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<'With' is substandard.>
Can you point me to a source that officially states that sub-standardness?
Can you point me to a source that officially states that sub-standardness?
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Conceptually similar verbs and idioms
substitute, replace, exchange
put in place of, take the place of, stand in for, fill in for
supplant, displace, supersede
CJ
substitute, replace, exchange
put in place of, take the place of, stand in for, fill in for
supplant, displace, supersede
CJ
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Verbs that show the same grammatical pattern (with non-benefactive for) in the active voice:
exchange, swap, trade
I [exchanged / swapped / traded] [my knife for a flashlight / the cufflinks for a tie].
In the passive these retain the for.
The knife was [exchanged / swapped / traded] for a flashlight.
The cufflinks
exchange, swap, trade
I [exchanged / swapped / traded] [my knife for a flashlight / the cufflinks for a tie].
In the passive these retain the for.
The knife was [exchanged / swapped / traded] for a flashlight.
The cufflinks
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It appears to me that the typical usage is as follows:
When X is substituted for Y, Y is the real, normal, or desired thing, and X is the less real, less normal, or less desired thing.
When X is substituted with Y, X is the real, normal, or desired thing, and Y is the less real, less normal, or less desired thing.
A fake copy was substitute
When X is substituted for Y, Y is the real, normal, or desired thing, and X is the less real, less normal, or less desired thing.
When X is substituted with Y, X is the real, normal, or desired thing, and Y is the less real, less normal, or less desired thing.
A fake copy was substitute
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Hi,
<'With' is substandard.>
Can you point me to a source that officially states that sub-standardness?
My Canadian Oxford Paperback Dictionary, in the entry for 'substitute', notes that
Use with the prepositions 'by' or 'with' should be avoided in standard English.
Best wishes aga
<'With' is substandard.>
Can you point me to a source that officially states that sub-standardness?
My Canadian Oxford Paperback Dictionary, in the entry for 'substitute', notes that
Use with the prepositions 'by' or 'with' should be avoided in standard English.
Best wishes aga
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