subjunctive or simple present in spoken english

Question

Hello again,

Again I have a question of course

. I am interested in the difference in the usage of the mandative subjunctive and the simple present tense in dependent "that" clauses after the verbs of demand as "insist" , "demand" ,"suggest" and "ask" .I suppose that the two are always interchangeable in the sentences like below :
We recommend that you be present here at 10.00 pm.
is the same as:
We recommend that you are present here at 10.00 pm.
Am i right ? And how much is the subjunctive mood used in similar situations in spoken english actually?
Is it correct that subjunctive mood would keep the same form if I put the main verb in the past tense i.e :

We recommended that you be present here at 10.00 pm.
and is it the same as :
We recommended that you were present here at 10.00 pm.

Best regards and thank you for your help

AlpheccaStars · Accepted Answer

I always use "be present", independent of the tense in the main clause.

Velimir · Answer

Thank you for your answer AlpheccaStars [:

I 'd like to make my question clearer. The point which is troublesome to me is whether the subjunctive mood is the only possible option in "that" clauses after the verbs like : "insist" , "recommend" ,"wish" , "suggest" and similar verbs. For example :

He insists that steps be taken to meet this danger.

He is anxious that the truth be known.

Would it be correct "are taken" or "is known" instead of "be taken" and "be known" respectively in the sentences above, or any other tense instead of the subjunctive without a change in the meaning.

Best regards and again thanks for your help

AlpheccaStars · Answer

Well, Velimir, some (native) speakers are very sloppy (or forgot their grammar lessons) and use the present tense instead of the correct subjunctive mood..
In formal writing, the authors are usually more careful to use the subjunctive.
I have the feeling that subjenctive mood may eventually go out of the language. That's because English has been continuously losing inflections over its history...

CalifJim · Answer

I would not subsitute the indicative for the subjunctive on these. You can end up with different meanings.

Rob insists that Julia is here. = Rob is insistent in his claim that Julia is here. = Rob believes that Julia is truly here, and he insists that he is correct about it. -- Perhaps earlier during the political demonstration he saw her, or someone who looks like her, among the crowd.
Rob insists that Julia be here. = Rob is insistent that he wants Julia to present herself here. -- Perhaps he is unwilling to continue the meeting until Julia appears.
The findings recorded in this document suggest that the patient takes his cholesterol medicine every day. = The findings indicate that the patient does, in fact, take the medicine. -- Perhaps blood tests were done to prove something about the concentration of the medicine in the patient's blood.
The findings recorded in this document suggest that the patient take his cholesterol medicine every day. = The findings make the suggestion that the patient would do well to take the medicine every day, though he is not doing so at present. -- Perhaps the tests show high cholesterol, and the doctors believe the medicine would help.
____
... recommended/suggested/insisted/ ... that he were ... is not English. Only the present subjunctive works here.
____
A construction with should is often equivalent to the subjunctive:
Rob insists that Julia should be here.
The findings suggest(ed) that the patient should take the medicine.
CJ

Velimir · Answer

Thank you very much AlpheccaStars ,CalifJim. Your answers are really really what I needed to know.

Perfect.

Best regards

Anonymous · Answer

Spoken English is sloppy! Full stop! At the end of the day people are ruining our language, why can't people simply speak the way they write. That way we could all be proud of ourselves and our use of language. People insist on using their own dialects, but why? Don't these idiots realise that speaking correctly means speaking as they would write which IS the right way to use language. I often hear people speaking inproper it disgusts me and I'm sure I am speaking for all those who care about the English language!!

BarbaraPA · Answer

AnonymousPeople insist on using their own dialects, but why? Don't these idiots realise that speaking correctly means speaking as they would write which IS the right way to use language.

Umm... see, here's the thing. Language exists as a tool for US to communicate. We don't exist as servants to the language. Language changes and uses that were common and correct in the past sound odd and non-standard now, and many instances of modern correct usage would have sounded quite odd to Shakespeare.

And I'd be willing to bet a good sum of money that if we transcribed your conversation throughout the day, a pedantic prescriptivist would have a great time with his red pen marking your "mistakes."

Save your ire and your disgust for how people TREAT each other and worry less about the "misuse" of language.

subjunctive or simple present in spoken english

Top answer

Get the Weekly English Kit 📬

Related Questions