Subject, verb and object in the sentence

Question

Hi."Those still harbouring doubts about the wisdom of this sudden move and apparent switch of emphasis from previous transfer policy had the logic laid out before them in gory detail at Old Trafford on Wednesday." [BBC Sport website.]Is "Those" a subject, "had" a verb and "the logic" an object in the sentence?Thank you.

Rover_KE · Accepted Answer

Yes.

Anonymous · Answer

Thank you, Rover, for your useful reply.

RandomGuy · Answer

AnonymousIs "Those" a subject, "had" a verb and "the logic" an object in the sentence?

Almost: those is the head of the subject noun phrase underlined below:

Those still harbouring doubts about the wisdom of this sudden move and apparent switch of emphasis from previous transfer policy had the logic laid out before them in gory detail at Old Trafford on Wednesday.

Fivejedjon · Answer

That is one analysis. I am not arguing against it, but I will point out that many learners will be told by their teachers, course books and student grammars that Those is the subject of the of verb had.

RandomGuy · Answer

fivejedjonbut I will point out that many learners will be told by their teachers, course books and student grammars that Those is the subject of the of verb had.

True, but I think they should be aware that that analysis is flawed. We understand the subject of had as the entire preceding noun phrase, not just those.

When one is determining the subject of a clause, it’s important to count all of the dependents that go with the head. Thus in the following examples the subjects are underlined:

Whoever said that was trying to mislead you. (not just whoever)
Why people behave like that is a mystery to me. (not just behave)
That he was acguitted disturbs her. (not just was)
Bringing your dad in on the deal was a great idea. (not just bringing)
To become a famous inventor like Thomas Edison is my dream. (not just become)

Fivejedjon · Answer

Aspara Gus I think they should be aware that that analysis is flawed.

It is flawed in the your school's system of analysis. As I have said in other threads, we are talking about labels. As there is no general agreement about definitions of many labels, we cannot say with any authority that the way one school applies a particular label is flawed - or correct.

In your school, the label 'subject' is applied to the whole of what you label the 'subject noun phrase' - the head and all of its dependents. In other schools, the label 'subject' is applied only to the head; the dependents are regarded as extensions of the subject. Personally, I find that system's labelling of 'subject' more satisfactory than that of some other schools, but I do not believe that others are wrong just because they are different.

RandomGuy · Answer

fivejedjonbut I do not believe that others are wrong just because they are different.

I don’t think it’s wrong because it’s different, but because it just doesn’t make sense. There are no grounds for analyzing only the head as subject, but I can think of a number of good reasons for analyzing the noun phrase as subject:

The dog that I bought yesterday bit my neighbor.

1. In subject-auxiliary inversion, the whole noun phrase appears after the auxiliary: Did the dog that I bought yesterday bite my neighbor?

2. The whole noun phrase appears in the corresponding passive as the complement of the preposition by: My neighbor was bitten by the dog that I bought yesterday.

3. Question tags attached to a declarative clause contain a subject pronoun that refers to the subject of that clause. In The dog that I bought yesterday bit my neighbor, didn’t it? the pronoun clearly refers to the entire noun phrase.

4. If we were to use the subject of the sentence above as a predicative complement in a related it-cleft, we would get It was the dog that I bought yesterday that bit my neighbor.

5. We understand the sentence as saying that it was the dog that I bought yesterday that bit my neighbor. It was this dog that performed the action, not just any dog.

fivejedjonI find that system's labelling of 'subject' more satisfactory than that of some other school

Then would you say that the underlined items below are main clause subjects?

Whoever said that was trying to mislead you.
Why people behave like that is a mystery to me.
That he was acguitted disturbs her.
Bringing your dad in on the deal was a great idea.
To become a famous inventor like Thomas Edison is my dream.

If not, then what do you think are the subjects?

Fivejedjon · Answer

Aspara GusI don’t think it’s wrong because it’s different, but because it just doesn’t make sense. There are no grounds for analyzing only the head as subject, but I can think of a number of good reasons for analyzing the noun phrase as subject:

Well, there are grounds if one's defintiion of 'subject is that it's the head, but I see no point in going over this again. I've already said, above, that I, personally, find the system you favour more satisfactory, though I wish some other label than 'subject' had been used.

RandomGuy · Answer

fivejedjonI've already said, above, that I, personally, find the system you favour more satisfactory

Sorry, I misunderstood that part.

Subject, verb and object in the sentence

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