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HiI have a question on the highlighted portion.Please give your comments.The third ghost showed Ebenezer Scrooge how people would treat him when he became old.I think the portion is acceptable and the sentence is grammatical.But I think, when they use this structure, it will be always proper to quote the line or phrase or words that makes the visualize the situation,and in this case it is way people treated him.

GPY · Accepted Answer

vsureshI think the portion is acceptable and the sentence is grammatical.

Right.

vsureshit will be always proper to quote the line or phrase or words that makes the visualize the situation

Sorry, I can't understand what you mean by this.

If it is relevant, "The third ghost showed Ebenezer Scrooge how" is a valid sentence, provided the context makes it clear what "how" relates to.

Vsuresh · Answer

Thank you for your help, GPY.

I see students while writing descriptive answers on literary appreciation write (examples) "He shows how one should be kind, how well he took of children etc.

When they do not support their views with relevant lines words from the passage they remain unjustified.

So my question was is it not right on the teacher's part to insist on quoting lines?

GPY · Answer

vsureshWhen they do not support their views with relevant lines words from the passage they remain unjustified.

If it is a "view", or interpretation, then I guess it ought to be so supported. However, there does not seem to me to be much element of interpretation in "The third ghost showed Ebenezer Scrooge how people would treat him when he became old."

Vsuresh · Answer

GPYHowever, there does not seem to me to be much element of interpretation in "The third ghost showed Ebenezer Scrooge how people would treat him when he became old."

Yes, here they can either quote or write how the ghost did that.

But, students sometimes . They just write "In the first paragraph the writer says how his childhood was" and move to the next point when the narrator has given a half page description of it (in the passage).

GPY · Answer

vsureshBut, students sometimes . They just write "In the first paragraph the writer says how his childhood was" and move to the next point when the narrator has given a half page description of it (in the passage).

I suppose the extent to which quotations are needed to support statements depends on the type of statements and the length, scope and intention of the essay. I don't think it is particularly related to this phrasing using "how". The same issue would exist with "the writer describes his childhood" (which, as it happens, reads better).

Vsuresh · Answer

I agree with you.Thank you, GPY.

CalifJim · Answer

vsureshThey just write "In the first paragraph the writer says how his childhood was" and move to the next point

In this situation I usually tell the students to write in greater detail, in a way that the reader can really understand what that specific story is about. I explain that "in the first paragraph" is really not of any interest to the reader, and that "says how his childhood was" can be the description of the beginning of about a thousand different stories. The students need to be guided away from vague generalities and toward specific details.

I once had a teacher read parts of student papers aloud to the class, as examples. Without giving names, she would read two different passages on the same point, one from each of two students. Then she would explain which one was more general and which was more specific, just to help us understand what she meant by "general" and "specific". (And, of course, she would happen to mention in a subtle way that the passage that had more specific points had earned a higher grade.)

This may help. No guarantees!

CJ

Edit: I just realized you also asked about quotations. Personally, I think it depends on the level of the students. In the American school that I attended, we didn't get into "quotations and footnotes" until we were at a more advanced level. At that point we were asked to do a very long paper which we called "a term paper" because it took at least six weeks to prepare the required pages of text, approximately 20 to 30 pages. Before then we did not work with quotations at all, and in fact, were told that if we used any text in our papers that was not our own, we were "plagiarizing". Gasp!

CJ

Vsuresh · Answer

CJ, thank you very much for your valuable explanation.

I would like to clarify a few things.
The first thing is by quotations I mean the lines from the passage or poem which the student needs to justify his answer.

The second thing is the subject I am referring to here is literary analysis wherein the questions are critical appreciation of poems, passages, Comment on the style, diction, figurative language used by the writer or poet etc

Let me give an example and see if you have similar views:

The student is answering a question " Write about the theme of the poem." [ 100 words] Then we require the student to write what according to him or her is the theme of the poem and while doing so he or she needs to quote the lines or words that support the theme they have chosen.

And when they answer questions on diction we expect the student quote the words from the work and comment on them.

Please give your comments.

CalifJim · Answer

vsureshThe student is answering a question " Write about the theme of the poem." [ 100 words] Then we require the student to write what according to him or her is the theme of the poem and while doing so he or she needs to quote the lines or words that support the theme they have chosen. ... we expect the student quote the words from the work and comment on them.

OK. You're dealing with only one poem so there's probably no need to use footnotes. I imagine that the quotations will be in quotation marks. (" ... ").

This sounds like a typical exercise for students. I see nothing unusual here. The idea of being specific is already built in to the exercise itself. There is nothing more specific to a poem than the actual words of the poem!

CJ

Vsuresh · Answer

CalifJimOK. You're dealing with only one poem so there's probably no need to use footnotes. I imagine that the quotations will be in quotation marks. (" ... ").

Yes.

Thank you, CJ.

Can you briefly tell me what you had as 'quotations' and 'footnotes'?

I want to know what they mean in your school context.

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