Storytelling with Conditionals

Question

When I'm storytelling I should use either present or past right? The events come in a logical sequence?

So I should use 'forget' here right?
1. If you have an accident because you forget to cancel the signal then it's your fault.
2. If you have an accident because you forgot to cancel the signal then it's your fault. (This is bad english with 'forgot'?)

Thanks.

Just the truth · Accepted Answer

No, it's not bad English, Jack. It's perfectly fine English.

Antía · Answer

To me it sounds as if in the first sentence the main action is hypothetical and in the second one the main action actually happened... Am I right?

Jack112 · Answer

0 01blockquote

00To me it sounds as if in the first sentence the main action is hypothetical and in the second one the main action actually happened... Am I right12blockquote

12br
02br
00Yes, the second one, it actually happened. 0-

Jack112 · Answer

0 01blockquote

02br
10A Bedtime Story 12br
10by Gilles Pinette 12br
12br
101 Many moons ago, as Nanabush was ice fishing on the Great Spirit Lake, he caught a very 12br
10special fish. This fish was clear like the cool water and 11b10would not be seen at all if it were not 12br
10for two golden eyes. 12b10And even these eyes were not visible when the fish closed her eyelids. 12br
12br
102 As Nanabush pulled the invisible fish from the water, she spoke to him. 12br
12br
103 “Oh great Nanabush, spare me for I am nothing but a stinky clear fish and my body tastes like 12br
10the inside of a bear’s intestine. If you grant me freedom, I shall bestow two wishes on you.” 12br
12br
104 Nanabush considered this for a moment and after remembering his experience with eating 12br
10bear’s intestine, decided to give the fish her freedom. His two wishes were very simple. A 12br
10companion to share life with and an ice fishing shack with a heater. 12br
12br
105 However, Nanabush wanted to have proof of his remarkable catch, so he cut the eyelids off the 12br
10fish and then let her go. That is why to this day, fish have no eyelids. 12br
12br
106 The transparent fish was angered by this act of dishonour, but was wise beyond most mortals. 12br
10She decided to remind Nanabush and the rest of mankind of the qualities they lacked. She 12br
10released a great spirit to make mankind giving, caring, loving, compassionate, and kind every 12br
10year around the time she was caught. That day was the twenty-fifth of December and that 12br
10released spirit was the Spirit of Christmas.12blockquote

12br
02br
00I don't get this part: 01blockquote

00This fish was clear like the cool water and 11b10would not be seen at all if it were not 12br
10for two golden eyes12b10. 12blockquote

12br
02br
00Why did they use imgainary present conditional? 02br
02br
00Why not this one: 02br
001. This fish was clear like the cool water and 01b00would not have been seen at all if it had not been for two golden eyes02b00. 02br
02br
00What do these mean? 02br
002. This fish was clear like the cool water and 01b00would not be seen at all if it were not 02br
00for two golden eyes02b00. 02br
003. This fish was clear like the cool water and 01b00would not have been seen at all if it had not been for two golden eyes02b00. 02br
02br
02br
02br
02br
00I have another one right here. I don't get the use of conditionals with stories. I don't get which one to use. I have included the story if you need it. I just don't get the bolded part. 02br
01blockquote

02br
10Dear Cecil: 12br
12br
10My sources tell me that water, when it spirals out of a drain, flows in one direction only in the Northern Hemisphere and in the opposite direction in the Southern Hemisphere. Is this so? Why? Is the spiral especially pronounced at the poles? Subdued at the equator? If I carried a drain across the equator would the spiral reverse directions? How do drains work in outer space? I know this probably seems like a lot of questions, but I have an unquenchable thirst for learning. --Victor C., Chicago 12br
12br
10Dear Victor: 12br
12br
10Lucky you found me then. Given the limitations of a once-a-week column, it is maybe an exaggeration to describe myself as an everlasting fountain of knowledge. But I am definitely an unstoppable leak. 12br
12br
10The erroneous bit of folk wisdom you refer to says that water always drains in a clockwise direction in the Southern Hemisphere, and in a counterclockwise direction in the Northern Hemisphere. The supposed reason for this "fact" is the Coriolis effect, which has to do with the effect of the earth's rotation on moving objects. 12br
12br
10Well, there is such a thing as the Coriolis effect. It explains why macroevents such as hurricanes rotate in a clockwise direction in the Southern Hemisphere and counterclockwise in the Northern Hemisphere. However, when you get down to itty-bitty phenomena such as the water draining out of your bathtub, the Coriolis effect is insignificant, amounting to roughly three ten-millionths of the force of gravity (in Boston, at least, which is where they happened to do the measuring). 12br
12br
10The boring truth is that water drains every which way no matter what hemisphere you're in, for reasons which have to do mostly with the shape of the drain, the way you poured in the water in the first place, and so on. 12br
12br
10All this was demonstrated way back in 1962 by one Ascher Shapiro, a researcher at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. Shapiro filled a circular tank six feet in diameter and six inches high in such a way that the water swirled in a clockwise direction. (Remember, now, that Coriolis forces in the Northern Hemisphere act in a counterclockwise direction.) 12br
12br
10Shapiro then covered the tank with a plastic sheet, kept the temperature constant, and sat down to read comic books or whatever scientists do while they wait for their experiments to percolate. When he pulled the plug after an hour or two, the water went down the drain clockwise, presumably because it still retained some clockwise motion from filling. 12br
12br
10On the other hand, 11b10if Shapiro pulled the plug after waiting a full 24 hours12b10, the draining water spiraled counterclockwise, indicating that the motion from filling had subsided enough for the Coriolis effect to take over. When the plug was pulled after four to five hours, the water started draining clockwise, then gradually slowed down and finally started swirling in the opposite direction. 12br
12br
10Needless to say, unless you are a consummate slob, you do not wait 24 hours (or even 4-5 hours) to drain your bathtub. Hence the influence of the Coriolis effect may be safely described as slight. 12br
12br
10But I'm sure the myth of the bathtub spirals will endure. Shapiro did his work in 1962 and I proclaimed it to the world in 1983. Yet next to the mystery of where all the baby pigeons are, this remains the commonest question I get.12blockquote

12br
02br
004. ....if Shapiro 01b00pulled 02b00the plug after waiting a full 24 hours, the draining water spiraled counterclockwise, indicating that the motion from filling had subsided enough for the Coriolis effect to take over. 02br
02br
00Why isn't it like this: 02br
005. 4. ....if Shapiro 01b00had pulled 02b00the plug after waiting a full 24 hours, the draining water spiraled counterclockwise, indicating that the motion from filling had subsided enough for the Coriolis effect to take over. 02br
02br
00What do #4 and #5 mean? How do I know what type of conditional to use for stories? 02br
02br
00Thanks. 0-

Just the truth · Answer

0 Part 1 - The fish 02br
02br
00I don't get this part: 02br
00This fish was clear like the cool water and would not be seen at all if it were not 02br
00for two golden eyes. 02br
02br
02br
00Why did they use imaginary present conditional? 02br
02br
00Why not this one: 02br
001. This fish was clear like the cool water and would not have been seen at all if it had not been for two golden eyes. 02br
02br
00What do these mean? 02br
002. This fish was clear like the cool water and would not be seen at all if it were not 02br
00for two golden eyes. 02br
003. This fish was clear like the cool water and would not have been seen at all if it had not been for two golden eyes. 02br
01h2

02h2

01h2

02h2

01h2

02h2

01h2

02h2

01h2

02h2

01h2

02h2

01h2

02h2

02br
02br
00JTT: What do these mean, Jack? 02br
02br
00I work in London. 02br
02br
00Yesterday, I worked in London at a homeless shelter. 0-

Jack112 · Answer

0 Part 1- The Fish 02br
02br
00I don't get this part: 01blockquote

00This fish was clear like the cool water and 11b10would12b10 not be seen at all if it were not 12br
10for two golden eyes.12blockquote

12br
02br
00Why did they use imgainary present conditional? 02br
02br
00Why not this one: 02br
001. This fish was clear like the cool water and would not 01b00have02b00 been seen at all if it 01b00had02b00 not been for two golden eyes. 02br
02br
00What do these mean? 02br
002. This fish was clear like the cool water and 01b00would02b00 not be seen at all if it 01b00were02b00 not 02br
00for two golden eyes 02br
003. This fish was clear like the cool water and would not 01b00have02b00 been seen at all if it 01b00had02b00 not been for two golden eyes. 02br
02br
00I change the bolded parts. I hope this is clearer. 0-

Just the truth · Answer

0 I put some parts in bold. I hope this is clearer. 02br
02br
00I changeD some of the parts and put them in bold. I hope this is clearer. 02br
02br
00JTT: 'bold', to my knowledge, hasn't yet made it into English as a "recognized" verb, Jack. I know, I know, you can find it in Google, but it's not that common. And yes, ENLs have the "right" to make new verbs, even going so far as to fingerquote these new verbs {in fact, that's how we often mark new verbs}, but I'd recommend that you stay with the herd on this one. 02br
02br
00I understood you completely in your first posting, Jack. But I'd like you to answer my questions below. While they may seem to be off the topic you've raised, I assure you that they are, dead on, the topic you've raised. 02br
02br
00++++++++++++++++++++ 02br
02br
00JTT: What do these mean, Jack? 02br
02br
00I work in London. 02br
02br
00Yesterday, I worked in London at a homeless shelter. 0-

Jack112 · Answer

0 01blockquote

00JTT: What do these mean, Jack? 12br
12br
10I work in London. 12br
12br
10Yesterday, I worked in London at a homeless shelter.12blockquote

12br
02br
00I work in london. (This means you work in london. It's the place where you work.) 02br
02br
00Yesterday, I worked in London at a homeless shelter. (This means you worked at a homeless shelter in London yesterday. You were in London working. It doesn't say if you work in London for a fact.) 0-

Just the truth · Answer

0 Okay, Jack. You recognize that in the former, the focus is on the general condition, where 'I' work, whereas in the second the focus is on some work performed 'yesterday'. 02br
02br
00So too, when we talk in an subjunctive/imaginary mood/manner about any given thing, we can focus on the general condition or we can focus on the "potential" finished action. These "potential" actions would, of course, only occur if we could actually operate in this fantasy world. 02br
02br
00In some circumstances, with some word choices, it becomes virtually impossible to focus on both finished action or general condition, but in other cases, circumstances allow us to do so. 02br
02br
002. This fish was clear like the cool water and would not be seen at all if it were not 02br
00for two golden eyes 02br
02br
00Here the focus is on the general condition of the "golden eyes". Let's put this into an imaginary reality situation and say there actually is a fish that's totally clear, just like water. This requires you to put yourself into an imaginary situation wherein such a fish exists. 02br
02br
00Now, we can talk about this "real" fish using present tense FORMS. Without its 'golden eyes', we can't see it in the water. 02br
02br
00This fish (that I'm showing you) is clear like the cool water (it comes from) and without its two golden eyes, (I then cut them out) {sorry gang, it was already dead} when I put it back in the water, it disappears, you just can't see it. 02br
02br
00This fish is clear like the cool water and it will not be seen at all if it didn't have golden eyes. 02br
02br
00Now, staying in this imaginary situation, let's shift our focus to the finished action. 02br
02br
02br
001. & 3. This fish was clear like the cool water and would not have been seen at all if it had not been for two golden eyes. 02br
02br
00Now, we're back in a fantasy world. We know this because of the change in word choice. Past tense FORMS + 'if' mean doubtful to impossible. Here it obviously means impossible. But in 1 & 3, the speaker shifts their focus to the finished action. 02br
02br
001. This fish was clear like the cool water and would not have been seen at all (by us, this time) if it had not been for ITS two golden eyes (that the person is staring at in this imaginary situation). 02br
0-

Jack112 · Answer

0 I have read your post. I think I need some time to think about it. 02br
02br
00But for now, I really want to know why they used a type 2 conditional instead of a type 3? How did they know know which one to use? What does it mean when it's a type 2 and what does it mean when it's a type 3? 02br
01blockquote

00This fish is clear like the cool water and it will not be seen at all if it didn't have golden eyes. 12blockquote

12br
00How come you didn't use 'doesn't' instead of 'didn't' ? Are you trying to show me something? Because I don't see it. With 'didn't' I think you are trying to point out that these fish do have golden eyes. But why not just use 'doesn't'? It is more grammatical? 02br
02br
00Thanks. 0-

Storytelling with Conditionals

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