Spelling Book (Noah Webster 1800) and "Zed" vs "Zee"

Question

Spelling Book (Noah Webster 1800) and "Zed" vs "Zee"

Richard Maurer quoted from Wikipedia:
The American English form zee derives from an English late 17th-century dialectal form, now obsolete in England.

Lye's New Spelling Book (1677) was the first to list "zee" as a correct pronunciation, and it was pretty much firmed up by Webster, who, like grammarians all over the former Empire, wanted to put the kibosh on all this "izzard" nonsense, and decreed "it is pronounced zee" (1827).
I could not verify much about Thomas Lye, beyond him being a Noncomformist minister of the right time period, but I got the impression that he was forced out of London England in the minister purge of 1662 and he went to Massachusetts. It might be interesting to see where he was raised.

Also there apparently was a reprint made in 1969
A new spelling book, 1677.
By: Thomas Lye
Publisher: Menston, (Yorks.) Scolar P., 1969.
Someone might take a look the next time they
go to a big academic library.
That's 1677. By 1800 it was an accomplished fact, judging by The American Spelling Book , by Noah Webster (1800?) http://www.merrycoz.org/books/spelling/SPELLING.HTM

In this book z is pronounced "ze";
for comparison, p is "pe", and t is "te".
The "ba be bi bo bu by" and the like we saw
in the alphabet song (The SchoolMaster)
are the first lessons learned after the alphabet.
Pronunciation aficionados will have a great time here. Interesting facts:
() His alphabet has only 25 letters.
"H is not a mark of sound; but it qualifies
or gives form to a succeeding sound."
() The alphabet ends with & "and".
This probably affects our reading of the song.
() The letters a, e, o, are vowels
(others are diphthongs or consonants)
() He gives a list of words that change from nouns to verbs by the position of the accent.
() ne-gro, not negur
() al-a-mode
() com-men-ta-tor
() su-per-cede
() pre-dom-i-nate
() wid-geon
() phthis-ic
() right-eous ri-chus
() says sez
() said sed
() wo-men wim-in
() The "don't count too soon" story with milk, eggs, chickens, and a green gown.
() cham-ois pronounced shammy
() Thus finger is pronounced fingger.
() Words in which h is pronounced before w,
though written after.
() Mrs. abbr for Mistress
Some quotes:
Q. What difference is there in the use of ye and you?

A. Ye is used in the solemn style you in common discourse; you is also used, in familiar language, for thou,
which is used principally in the addresses to the Deity.

Q. What is the use of should?
A. In the first person it commonly expresses event merely; as, I should write if I had an opportunity."
In the second and third persons it expresses duty
or obligation; as, you should help the poor;
he should go to school.
When an emphasis is laid on should or would,
it varies their meaning.

Nouns of multitude, though they are in the singular number may have a verb and pronoun, agreeing with them either in the singular or plural.
(1) http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mzed.html Richard Maurer To reply, remove half
Sunnyvale, California of a homonym of a synonym for also. (branching from the "Zed" vs. "Zee" thread)

Usenet · Accepted Answer

() The letters a, e, o, are vowels
(others are diphthongs or consonants)
Errr, cancel that bit.
Richard Maurer To reply, remove half
Sunnyvale, California of a homonym of a synonym for also.

Usenet · Answer

> Ian of The Straight Dope (1) wrote
[nq:1]Lye's New Spelling Book (1677) was the first to list "zee" as a correct pronunciation, and it was pretty much ... the minister purge of 1662 and he went to Massachusetts. It might be interesting to see where he was raised.[/nq]
DNB says Lye (variously Lee and Leigh) was a Somerset man, educated at Oxford and Cambridge. He was indeed purged in '62, but stayed in London, preaching as successfully as before and maintaining a reputation as a fine educator of children. He died there in 1684. No mention of any trip to America; perhaps the Massachussetts idea comes from an American edition of the Spelling Book?
The 1677 reprint (or, I infer from OED's dating, new edition) is OED's earliest example for zee .
Mike.

Usenet · Answer

I could not verify much about Thomas Lye, beyond him being a Noncomformist minister of the right time period, but I got the impression that he was forced out of London England in the minister purge of 1662 and he went to Massachusetts. It might be interesting to see where he was raised.

DNB says Lye (variously Lee and Leigh) was a Somerset man, educated at Oxford and Cambridge. He was indeed purged in '62, but stayed in London, preaching as successfully as before and maintaining a reputation as a fine educator of children. He died there in 1684. No mention of any trip to America; perhaps the Massachussetts idea comes from
an American edition of the Spelling Book?
The 1677 reprint (or, I infer from OED's dating, new edition) is OED's earliest example for zee .
OK, cancel the Massachusetts suggestion. I saw the MA and stuck on Massachusetts without thinking that it might mean something else. Did he preach to a bunch of people who did go to America?
Richard Maurer To reply, remove half
Sunnyvale, California of a homonym of a synonym for also.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]Spelling Book (Noah Webster 1800) and "Zed" vs "Zee" Richard Maurer quoted from Wikipedia: The American English form zee derives ... Noah Webster (1800?) http://www.merrycoz.org/books/spelling/SPELLING.HTM In this book z is pronounced "ze"; for comparison, p is "pe", and t is "te".[/nq]
See also The Grammar of English Grammars by Gould Brown (1851). Brown quotes John Walker's "Principles of Pronunciation", which I believe is the preface to his Critical Pronouncing Dictionary (a book that went through several editions before and after Walker's death in 1807).

http://www.fullbooks.com/The-Grammar-of-English-Grammars6.html
It is remarkable that this able critic (Walker), though he treated minutely of the letters, naming them all in the outset of his "Principles" subsequently neglected the names of them all, except the first and the last. Of Zee , (which has also been called Zed, Zad, Izzard, Uzzard, Izzet , and Iz ,)(90) he says, "Its common name is izzard , which Dr. Johnson explains into s hard ; if, however, this is the meaning, it is a gross misnomer; for the z is not the hard, but the soft s ;(91) but as it has a less sharp, and therefore not so audible a sound, it is not impossible but it may mean s surd .

Zed , borrowed from the French, is the more fashionable name of this letter; but, in my opinion, not to be admitted, because the names of the letters ought to have no diversity. " Walker's Principles , No. 483. It is true, the name of a letter ought to be one, and in no respect diverse; but where diversity has already obtained, and become firmly rooted in custom, is it to be obviated by insisting upon what is old-fashioned, awkward, and inconvenient? Shall the better usage give place to the worse? Uniformity cannot be so reached.

In this country, both Zed and Izzard , as well as the worse forms Zad and Uzzard , are now fairly superseded by the softer and better term Zee ; and whoever will spell aloud, with each of these names, a few such words as dizzy, mizzen, gizzard , may easily perceive why none of the former can ever be brought again into use. The other two, Iz and Izzet , being localisms, and not authorized English, I give up all six; Zed to the French, and the rest to oblivion.

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[nq:1]DNB says Lye (variously Lee and Leigh) was a Somerset man, educated at Oxford and Cambridge. He was indeed purged ... thinking that it might mean something else. Did he preach to a bunch of people who did go to America?[/nq]
No evidence on that; but I'd be surprised if none of them did. (Yes, I did take the hint about the number of sigmas in MA, thank you! Getting confused with MI, I suppose.)
Mike.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]Spelling Book (Noah Webster 1800) and "Zed" vs "Zee" Richard ... this "izzard" nonsense, and decreed "it is pronounced zee" (1827).[/nq]
[nq:2]By 1800 it was an accomplished fact, judging by ... "ze"; for comparison, p is "pe", and t is "te".[/nq]
[nq:1]See also The Grammar of English Grammars by Gould Brown (1851). Brown quotes John Walker's "Principles of Pronunciation", ... and not authorized English, I give up all six; Zed to the French, and the rest to oblivion.[/nq]
That told the ********.
Mike.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]That told the ********.[/nq]
Thou whoreson zed! thou unnecessary letter!
dictionary.com suggests 'izzard' came from the Scots 'ezed'.

Spelling Book (Noah Webster 1800) and "Zed" vs "Zee"

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