So/such

Question

Feeling a little uncomfortable and ill at ease in the presence of others, one finds his mind won't work right. It simply refuses to come up with the bright remark or the lively comeback that would have found so beautiful a place in the conversation.

If the 'so' in the underlined part was replaced with 'such' as this, would it still make the same sense?

Feeling a little uncomfortable and ill at ease in the presence of others, one finds his mind won't work right. It simply refuses to come up with the bright remark or the lively comeback that would have found such a beautiful place in the conversation.

Hrsanei · Accepted Answer

Yes it will do.

However, the first one is more poetical.

Cheers

Anonymous · Answer

You can replace "so" with "such" as you mentioned, but if you do so, it definitely changes the sentence's meaning.

that would have found so beautiful a place in the conversation.

Here you describe the way it founds a beautiful place in the conversation. You can ask the question:

"How does it find a place in the conversation?", and the answer is: "It finds it so beautiful / in a beautiful way".

However, in this sentence:

that would have found such a beautiful place in the conversation.

You simply describe the place in the conversation. You can ask the question:

"How does the place in the conversation appear to be?", and the answer is: "It appears to be a beautiful place".

Did you notice the differences? There are only certain cases in which you can replace "so" with "such", but unfortunately this case doesn't seem to be one of them.

Good luck!

Taka · Answer

Anonymous
You can replace "so" with "such" as you mentioned, but if you do so, it definitely changes the sentence's meaning.
that would have found so beautiful a place in the conversation.
Here you describe the way it founds a beautiful place in the conversation. You can ask the question:
"How does it find a place in the conversation?", and the answer is: "It finds it so beautiful / in a beautiful way".

That's what I've been wondering about. I mean, I've been wondering if it means that it would have found 'how' or it would have found 'what'.

Simply from a grammatical point of view, the underlined part could be either:

that would have found so beautiful a place in the conversation

(a place: object so beautiful: complement)

Another example: I found interesting the story you told me about in the class.

(the story you told me about in the class: object interesting: complement)

or

that would have found so beautiful a place in the conversation

(so beautiful a place=such a beautiful place: object, the former a bit poetic as hrsanei says)

In other words, I've been wondering if semantically here in this context 'so beautiful a place' is the object of 'found' or not.

What do you think?

Anonymous · Answer

What do you think?

I think that the context here indicates it's a matter of "how" and not "what".

It doesn't make sense to me to say "so beautiful a place" in lieu of "such a / so beautiful place".

Furthermore, I don't see the reason why to get this whole quite long sentence complicated than it is already.

Good luck!

CalifJim · Answer

TakaIf the 'so' in the underlined part was replaced with 'such' ..., would it still make the same sense?

Yes. I don't sense any difference in meaning. I agree with the comment above that the first version sounds more poetic.

CJ

Taka · Answer

Jim, so you think 'so beautiful a place' is simply the object of 'found'?

Anonymous · Answer

So explain yourself because I don't see the same meaning you're talking about.

CalifJim · Answer

Takaso you think 'so beautiful a place' is simply the object of 'found'?

Yes. foundneeds an object, and I don't see anything else around there that's willing to take that role.

Who says, "Guess what? Yesterday I found!"

CJ

Edit: OK. I think I'm starting to get what you're talking about.

I don't see this interpretation as valid:

... found a place in the conversation to be so beautiful.

So I don't accept the idea that "so beautiful" is a complement as you describe it.

CJ

CalifJim · Answer

AnonymousI don't see the same meaning you're talking about.

I don't see the different meanings you're talking about.

Well, maybe I do. See my remarks below the line.

... found so beautiful a place ... = ... found a place that is so beautiful ...

... found such a beautiful place ... = ... found a place that is so beautiful ...

I've never seen so magnificent a palace. = I've never seen such a magnificent palace.

Karen had never heard so inspirational a speech. = Karen had never heard such an inspirational speech.

____________

Is this the parsing you guys are concerned about?

... found so beautiful a place ... = found a place to be so beautiful ...

It might be the right reading for another sentence, but I don't see it for this one.

To say that a witty remark would find a beautiful place in a conversation simply means that the remark would fit into the conversation beautifully. It has nothing to do with actually finding (judging) anything to be beautiful.

CJ

Anonymous · Answer

Is this the parsing you guys are concerned about?

... found so beautiful a place ... = found a place to be so beautiful .

Yes, it is.

Thanks for pointing that out. I thought "so beautiful" can only describe the deed (For example: How did they find it? They found it in a beautiful way).

In other words, I thought "beautiful" can't be a compliment to the place (it isn't the place which seems beautiful), as it describes the way of finding a place in the conversation. Is this parsing considered poetic as already mentioned?

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