Skint

Question

Does skint, as in stony-broke, mean "my wallet is so hollowed out only the skin remains"?

Usenet · Accepted Answer

[nq:1]Does skint, as in stony-broke, mean "my wallet is so hollowed out only the skin remains"?[/nq]
Cassell's doesn't spell it with a T, but it has:
skinned adj l (1900s-20s) comprehensively beaten, utterly defeated. 2 (1930s-on) deprived of one's
money, especially after gambling unsuccessfully (see SKIN verb l)
skin l (early 19C-on) to take all a person's money in a gambling game. 2 (early 19C-on) to cheat or
defraud someone of their money or other possessions (snip three later related meanings)
I take it to be the kind of verb as in "he was nearly skinned alive."

Best Donna Richoux

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]Does skint, as in stony-broke, mean "my wallet is so hollowed out only the skin remains"?[/nq]
[nq:1]Cassell's doesn't spell it with a T, but it has: skinned adj l (1900s-20s) comprehensively beaten, utterly defeated. 2 (1930s-on) ... three later related meanings) I take it to be the kind of verb as in "he was nearly skinned alive."[/nq]
Oh, gosh. I've known "skint" as British slang (=AmE "broke") for about 30 years, but I never realized it might be a past participle.

How say our native BrE speakers? Do you recognize "skint" as being a past participle of "skin"?
(Perhaps no more or no less than AmE speakers recognize "broke" as, what it certainly must be, a non-standard past participle of "break").

Roland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food.

NB mail to my.spamtrap (at) verizon.net is heavily filtered to remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]Cassell's doesn't spell it with a T, but it has: ... kind of verb as in "he was nearly skinned alive."[/nq]
[nq:1]Oh, gosh. I've known "skint" as British slang (=AmE "broke") for about 30 years, but I never realized it might be a past participle. How say our native BrE speakers? Do you recognize "skint" as being a past participle of "skin"?[/nq]
No, I don't. But then, I don't think that the verb "to skin", with that meaning, could remotely be said to still be in everyday usage. The nearest I can come is "to fleece".
Nor, indeed, would I have accepted the Cassell's entry as evidence that it is. As Donna says, "Cassell's doesn't spell it with a T" - which would be more correctly worded as "Cassell's doesn't have an entry for it". A similar-looking meaning in a similar-sounding word is at best circumstantial, and as I've found out to my cost more than once here, sometimes misleading. However, a glance in Chambers shows that it, at least, agrees on the derivation.
Cheers - Ian

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]Cassell's doesn't spell it with a T, but it has: ... kind of verb as in "he was nearly skinned alive."[/nq]
[nq:1]Oh, gosh. I've known "skint" as British slang (=AmE "broke") for about 30 years, but I never realized it might be a past participle. How say our native BrE speakers? Do you recognize "skint" as being a past participle of "skin"?[/nq]
Can't say I ever thought about it until now, and lo and behold, in COD10:
skint
· adj. Brit. informal having little or no money available. ? ORIGIN 1920s: var. of colloq. skinned, in the same sense, past part. of skin.
You learn something new here every day.

wrmst rgrds
Robin Bignall
Hertfordshire
England

Usenet · Answer

Roland Hutchinson filted:
[nq:1]Oh, gosh. I've known "skint" as British slang (=AmE "broke") for about 30 years, but I never realized it might ... or no less than AmE speakers recognize "broke" as, what it certainly must be, a non-standard past participle of "break").[/nq]
Now you've got me wondering whether "broke" in this sense was preceded or followed by similar use of "busted":
http://ntl.matrix.com.br/pfilho/html/lyrics/b/busted.txt

..r

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]Roland Hutchinson filted:[/nq]
[nq:2]Oh, gosh. I've known "skint" as British slang (=AmE "broke") ... it certainly must be, a non-standard past participle of "break").[/nq]
[nq:1]Now you've got me wondering whether "broke" in this sense was preceded or followed by similar use of "busted": http://ntl.matrix.com.br/pfilho/html/lyrics/b/busted.txt[/nq]
"Gone bust" (or more generally, "to go bust") gets into the mix somewhere, too.

Roland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food.

NB mail to my.spamtrap (at) verizon.net is heavily filtered to remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]Roland Hutchinson filted:[/nq]
[nq:2]Oh, gosh. I've known "skint" as British slang (=AmE "broke") ... it certainly must be, a non-standard past participle of "break").[/nq]
That's a good analogy. Cassell's agrees that it comes from the verb "break" creditors breaking a debtor. That's not a current use of the verb, and I don't spot it in Mastertexts; I bet the OED must have some citations, unless it was considered figurative.
I have more luck with "broken":
He went into the back room and lit the spirit-
kettle to boil the water for his tea, laughing the while at the recollection of his recent interview. If all patients were like this one it could easily be reckoned how many it would take to ruin him
completely. Putting aside the dirt upon his carpet and the loss of time, there were twopence gone upon the bandage, fourpence or more upon the medicine, to say nothing of phial, cork, label, and paper. Then he had given her fivepence, so that his first
patient had absorbed altogether not less than one
sixth of his available capital. If five more were to come he would be a broken man.
Arthur Conan Doyle
[nq:1]Now you've got me wondering whether "broke" in this sense was preceded or followed by similar use of "busted":[/nq]
Cassell's has, for the pertinent meanings:
busted - mid-19th c.
broke - mid-17th c.
Do I need to point out that "bust" is a non-rhotic form of "burst"?

Best Donna Richoux

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]Roland Hutchinson filted:[/nq]
[nq:1]That's a good analogy. Cassell's agrees that it comes from the verb "break" creditors breaking a debtor. That's not ... and I don't spot it in Mastertexts; I bet the OED must have some citations, unless it was considered figurative.[/nq]
Here's the relevant part of the OED on broke:

3. slang. a. In predicative use = BROKEN ppl. a. 7; penniless;also broke to the wide (see WIDE n.) or broke to the world. Freq. with qualifying word, as clean, dead, flat broke, stone-broke (see STONE n.
20), stony broke (see STONY a. 6).Cf. the following, which are properly instances of BREAK v. 11.

(1665 PEPYS Diary 6 July (1895) V. 6 It seems some of his creditors have taken notice of it, and he was like to be broke yesterday in his absence. 1669 Ibid. 12 Mar. (1896) VIII. 258 Being newly broke by running in debt.)
1716 J. STEUART Let. 28 Dec. (1915) 38 Alexr. Mackpherson..is much inarear and quit broke. 1821 in N. Carolina Hist. Comm. I. 220 I have been broke now twelve months,..yet I move on in the old way. 1842 Spirit of Times 2 Apr. 58/1 Barrett, poor fellow, is dead broke. Ibid. 21 May 138/1 Every friend of Old Whitenose would have been flat broke! 1843 Ibid. 14 Jan. 544/3, I was clean broke in less than four hours. 1846 Ibid. 25 Apr. 101/2, I unfortunately am short of funds, flat broke, busted, collapsed. 1851 N. KINGSLEY Diary (1914) 173 To day men have come along ?dead broke? and have gone to work for 4 dollars pr. day.
1886 H. SMART Outsider vii, Well, sir, I was broke{em}so broke as I hopeI never shall be again{em}?dead stoney?, barely expresses it. a1889 in Barrère & Leland Dict. Slang. s.v., Then came the fiasco, And Ben cried ?Carrasco! I'm bested, broke, busted{em}or partly!? 1889 Pall Mall Gaz.
14 Aug. (Farmer), I see that Sullivan made 21,000 dols. out of hisfight, but as he was ?dead broke? before the battle, there won't be much of it left. 1898 ?O. THANET? Heart of Toil 141 Think of them boys, who are all stone-broke.., wanting to lend me money. 1918 W. J. LOCKE Rough Road iii, I believe you good people think I've come back broke to the world. 1926 J. BLACK You can't Win v. 53 (The landlady) wanted the rent. I told her I was broke.

Laura
(emulate St. George for email)

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]Here's the relevant part of the OED on broke: 3. slang. a. In predicative use = BROKEN ppl. a. ... be broke yesterday in his absence. 1669 Ibid. 12 Mar. (1896) VIII. 258 Being newly broke by running in debt.)[/nq]
(snip later citations)
Thank you, Laura. Can I trouble you for the related "BREAK v. 11" that it mentions? I think that is more mysterious part, for me.

I wonder now if "break" was a term like "forfeiture" or "declaring someone bankrupt" or "seizing assets" or something along those lines the creditors deciding to take action.

Best Donna Richoux

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]Here's the relevant part of the OED on broke: ... (1896) VIII. 258 Being newly broke by running in debt.)[/nq]
[nq:1](snip later citations) Thank you, Laura. Can I trouble you for the related "BREAK v. 11" that it mentions? I ... "forfeiture" or "declaring someone bankrupt" or "seizing assets" or something along those lines the creditors deciding to take action.[/nq]
Seems you're right.
11. a. To ruin financially, make bankrupt (a person or bank). to breakthe bank: formerly also in the sense ?to become bankrupt?. (To break the bank, in Gambling means to clear out the amount of money which the proprietor of the gaming table has before him: see BANK n.3 4.)
1612-15 BP. HALL Contempl. O.T. XIX. vii, The holiest man may be deep in arrearages, and break the bank. 1644-7 R. STAPYLTON Juvenal 123 Meer expence in paper breaks you all. a1674 CLARENDON Hist. Reb. (1703) II. VII. 330 The necessities of the Army still pressed us..to break the Merchants here. 1705 TATE Warriour's Welc. x. 7 Britain's Gen'ral came..and broke the Bank of Fame. 1850 THACKERAY Pendennis lvi. (1884)
548 He had seen his friend..break the bank three nights running at Paris.
b. intr. (for refl.) To become bankrupt, to ?fail? (commercially). Now less usual.
1596 SHAKES. Merch. V. III. i. 120 Hee cannot choose but breake.1661-2 PEPYS Diary 19 Jan., Our merchants here in London do daily break.
1678 BUTLER Hud. III. III. 248 By which some Glorious Feats atchieve, AsCitizens, by breaking, thrive. 1793 LD. SPENCER in Ld. Auckland's Corr. (1862) III. 82 Hutchinson is going to break, and to show the world that honesty is the best policy. 1856 EMERSON Eng. Traits v. 89 In trade, the Englishman believes that nobody breaks who ought not to break. 1879 H. GEORGE Progr. & Pov. V. i. (1881) 250 A bank breaks..and on every side workmen are discharged.

Laura
(emulate St. George for email)

Skint

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