"six die roll" vs "six dice roll"

Question

I've been working on this paper concerning a dice game where the phrase "six die roll" shows up from time-to-time. My co-author is saying it should be "six dice roll". At first I agreed with him (though it felt wrong somehow), but thinking about it further I now wonder if perhaps "six die roll" is indeed correct. In particular there are many other common forms where I'm almost certain you use the singular form of the modifying noun:

You don't say "a two men tent", you say "a two man tent".
You don't say "a six horses race", you say "a six horse race".

I was wondering if someone could tell which is correct for our case (or perhaps both are correct?), and why. (An authoritative reference would be appreciated if anyone knows of one).

Much Thanks!

Matt

CalifJim · Accepted Answer

purple cobraAn authoritative reference would be appreciated if anyone knows of one.

Good luck on that! I've never seen a grammar book so detailed that it would have advice on the compound adjective 'two-die' vs 'two-dice'.

purple cobraI'm almost certain you use the singular form of the modifying noun

Correct. There are a few exceptions (sports equipment), but the general rule is that the modifying noun is singular. The vast majority of these constructions follow that rule.

For this reason I'm inclined to agree with you that the correct form is "a two-die roll" (Note the hyphen).

Nevertheless, the only two examples I could find (See the link below) were in the context of mathematics, and these were 'two-dice' thus: 'two-dice sums and products' and 'two-dice outcomes'.

Consequently, the situation you find yourself in will almost inevitably turn into an argument between you and your co-author based on personal taste.

https://www.google.com/search?q=%22two%20dice%22&tbm=bks&tbs=cdr:1,cd_min:1990,cd_max:2000&lr=lang_en

CJ

Anonymous · Answer

One thing I often observe is that there are grammar rules and then there are plentiful exceptions, and what often helps me in situations like these is to acknowledge that language is ever-shifting in its conventions, even conventions that make no sense to me. I’ll often use Google search frequencies as an impartial arbiter of common usage. The previous respondent gave a couple Google book examples, preferring published work to establish a more carefully edited standard. That’s OK with me. But consider the data:

"two dice roll" search: https://www.google.com/search?q=%22two+dice+roll%22&lr=lang_en&biw=1536&bih=774&source=lnt&tbs=lr%3Alang_1en%2Ccdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A1%2F1%2F1990%2Ccd_max%3A5%2F8%2F2017&tbm=bks

(5 phrases clearly matching)

“two die roll” search: https://www.google.com/search?q=%22two+dice+roll%22&lr=lang_en&biw=1536&bih=774&source=lnt&tbs=lr%3Alang_1en%2Ccdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A1%2F1%2F1990%2Ccd_max%3A5%2F8%2F2017&tbm=bks#lr=lang_en&tbs=lr:lang_1en,cdr:1,cd_min:1/1/1990,cd_max:5/8/2017&tbm=bks&q=%22two+die+roll%22

“showing results for two dice roll”

Show instead “two die roll” results…

“Did you mean ‘two dice roll’?”

(only 1 phrase clearly matching)

“three dice roll” search: https://www.google.com/search?q=%22two+dice+roll%22&lr=lang_en&biw=1536&bih=774&source=lnt&tbs=lr%3Alang_1en%2Ccdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A1%2F1%2F1990%2Ccd_max%3A5%2F8%2F2017&tbm=bks#lr=lang_en&tbs=lr:lang_1en,cdr:1,cd_min:1/1/1990,cd_max:5/8/2017&tbm=bks&q=%22three+dice+roll%22

(4 phrases clearly matching)

“three die roll search: https://www.google.com/search?q=%22two+dice+roll%22&lr=lang_en&biw=1536&bih=774&source=lnt&tbs=lr%3Alang_1en%2Ccdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A1%2F1%2F1990%2Ccd_max%3A5%2F8%2F2017&tbm=bks#lr=lang_en&tbs=lr:lang_1en,cdr:1,cd_min:1/1/1990,cd_max:5/8/2017&tbm=bks&q=%22three+die+roll%22

“Did you mean: ‘3 dice roll’”

(only 1 phrase clearly matching)

Four dice/die roll didn’t match any books for the time range.

Five dice roll didn’t have any clear phrase match. Five die roll matched no books for the time range.

Six dice/die roll didn’t match any books for the time range.

Searching more broadly with Google’s general search:

“six dice roll” --> ~31,000 results

“six die roll” --> ~1,360 results

That’s a ratio of almost 23:1 in web usage. Now granted, not all phrase searches match the intended usage for “six dice roll” or “six-dice roll”. This captures, for instance, “… six dice. Roll …”. However, even a cursory look through results shows that the use of “six dice roll” or “six-dice roll” is more common than “six die roll” or “six-die roll”.

When in doubt, I follow the data. Except for Oxford comma’s, two spaces between online sentences, end-quote inside/outside punctuation standards, etc.

"six die roll" vs "six dice roll"

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