Sir Thomas More would be so proud

Question

I just heard a disco song on the radio whose lyrics are apparently "There but for the grace of God go ay yay yay yay yay."Sorry. Just felt like sharing. Go on to the next thread.

Usenet · Accepted Answer

[nq:1]I just heard a disco song on the radio whose lyrics are apparently "There but for the grace of *** go ay yay yay yay yay." Sorry. Just felt like sharing.[/nq]
Thanks for sharing. But it wasn't Sir Thomas More.

"There but for the grace of ***, goes John Bradford" - John Bradford (1510?-1555), on seeing some criminals taken to execution.

There was a discussion about the phrase here:
http://phrases.shu.ac.uk/bulletin board/24/messages/15.html

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]I just heard a disco song on the radio whose lyrics are apparently "There but for the grace of *** go ay yay yay yay yay." Sorry. Just felt like sharing. Go on to the next thread.[/nq]
I can't. It wasn't Thomas More. May I tell you who it was?

Best Donna Richoux

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Donna Richoux filted:
[nq:2]I just heard a disco song on the radio whose ... Just felt like sharing. Go on to the next thread.[/nq]
[nq:1]I can't. It wasn't Thomas More. May I tell you who it was?[/nq]
It's been handled..
Meanwhile, Schiller may or may not be pleased by the instrumental guitar break in a rock song I heard on Taiwan Radio the other day...the Ode to Joy makes a nice switch from all the Christmas music they were playing two weeks ago..r

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]I just heard a disco song on the radio whose ... Just felt like sharing. Go on to the next thread.[/nq]
[nq:1]I can't. It wasn't Thomas More. May I tell you who it was? Best Donna Richoux[/nq]
Only if you change Sir to Saint.
Cheers, Sage

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[nq:2]I just heard a disco song on the radio whose ... ay yay yay yay yay." Sorry. Just felt like sharing.[/nq]
[nq:1]Thanks for sharing. But it wasn't Sir Thomas More. "There but for the grace of ***, goes John Bradford" - John Bradford (1510?-1555), on seeing some criminals taken to execution.[/nq]
Did you check that with a source? According to the Oxford Dictionary of Quotations (1948 printing), the word order is different from the version which is commonly quoted. It has:
"But for the grace of *** there goes John Bradford".

Cheers, Harvey
Ottawa/Toronto/Edmonton for 30 years;
Southern England for the past 21 years.
(for e-mail, change harvey to whhvs)

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[nq:2]I just heard a disco song on the radio whose ... Just felt like sharing. Go on to the next thread.[/nq]
[nq:1]I can't. It wasn't Thomas More. May I tell you who it was?[/nq]
Not any Bradford.

Jerry Friedman thanks Richard Sabey.

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[nq:1]On 01 Apr 2004, Richard Sabey wrote[/nq]
[nq:2]Thanks for sharing. But it wasn't Sir Thomas More. "There ... John Bradford (1510?-1555), on seeing some criminals taken to execution.[/nq]
[nq:1]Did you check that with a source? According to the Oxford Dictionary of Quotations (1948 printing), the word order is different from the version which is commonly quoted. It has: "But for the grace of *** there goes John Bradford".[/nq]
My edition (1979) gives D.N.B. as the source, which I have just figured out is the (UK) Dictionary of National Biography. I think it's been anecdotal for a long time.
I looked a bit to see how the phrase has been used. The Making of America site has a dozen citations, mostly from religious writing of 1860-1870. They are evenly divided between
But for the grace of *** there goes...
There but for the grace of *** goes...
with various commas. Most say "John Bradford," one says "old John Bradford," and two say "John Bunyan."
The version "There but for..." feels more familiar to me. Fortunately, I don't see the slightest difference in meaning between the two.

I couldn't have told you John Bradford, though, I only know "go I." So far, the earliest print version I've found ending in "go I" is G.B. Shaw, Man and Superman , 1903.
The Making of America site had no hits for "grace of *** go" or "grace of *** there go". Only "goes".
Bradford was a Reformation preacher, by the way. There's a biography of him here:
http://www.britannia.com/bios/bradford.html

Ridley grouped Bradford and Lever with Latimer and Knox as the most incisive preachers of the age.
Bradford's short career was ended by his
imprisonment and martyrdom in 1555.

Best Donna Richoux

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]On 01 Apr 2004, Richard Sabey wrote Did you check ... "But for the grace of *** there goes John Bradford".[/nq]
~~snip examples~~
[nq:1]The version "There but for..." feels more familiar to me. Fortunately, I don't see the slightest difference in meaning between the two.[/nq]
Agreed entirely, with both points but it intrigues me to think that the more-familiar-to-me version of "There but..." might be relatively recent.
~~snip~~
[nq:1]Bradford was a Reformation preacher, by the way. There's a biography of him here: http://www.britannia.com/bios/bradford.html[/nq]
I don't have the full DNB, but the 1903 "Index and Epitome" (the text of which is reproduced in the modern "Concise DNB") doesn't mention the quote; that strikes me as intriguing, since that's now what Bradford's best remembered for.
You can read the DNB "Epitome" version at this site (sorry, but it'll wrap):
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-
bin/ptext?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A2000.01.0013;query=entry%3D%233477;layou t=;loc=3476
(The DNB is, of course, a late 19th-century effort, which probably accounts for Bradford's identification as a "Protestant martyr" rather than as a preacher or theorist: it stresses the Marian purges rather than his preaching.)

Cheers, Harvey
Ottawa/Toronto/Edmonton for 30 years;
Southern England for the past 21 years.
(for e-mail, change harvey to whhvs)

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]I just heard a disco song on the radio whose ... ay yay yay yay yay." Sorry. Just felt like sharing.[/nq]
[nq:1]Thanks for sharing. But it wasn't Sir Thomas More. "There but for the grace of ***, goes John Bradford" - John Bradford (1510?-1555), on seeing some criminals taken to execution. There was a discussion about the phrase here: http://phrases.shu.ac.uk/bulletin board/24/messages/15.html[/nq]
I always liked "There, but for the grace of ***, goes ***". There are various attributions of that one, of which the most popular seems to be Churchill on Stafford Cripps, but I think Herman Manciewicz on Orson Welles is the most likely.

Don Aitken
Mail to the addresses given in the headers is no longer being read. To mail me, substitute "clara.co.uk" for "freeuk.com".

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]I always liked "There, but for the grace of ***, goes ***". There are various attributions of that one, of which the most popular seems to be Churchill on Stafford Cripps, but I think Herman Manciewicz on Orson Welles is the most likely.[/nq]
On Proquest, the earliest citation is a Nov. '41 New York Times book review of Leo Rosten's Hollywood: The Movie Colony, the Movie Makers . Rosten remembers it only as "someone's comment on Orson Welles". An Oct. '43 Washington Post article calls it "an anonymous remark" about Welles. The earliest attribution to Mankiewicz that I can find is Pauline Kael's essay "Raising Kane" in The Citizen Kane Book (1971).

But attributions to Churchill go almost as far back. A Sep. '43 New York Times piece on "Churchillisms" has Churchill saying it of "a particularly intranisgent doctrinaire politician." The first mention of Cripps as the target is an Oct. '47 NY Times profile of him. Bennett Cerf then popularized the Churchill-Cripps version in Shake Well Before Using: A New Collection Of Impressions and Anecdotes, Mostly Humorous (1948).

Sir Thomas More would be so proud

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