since + present perfect tense

Question

1. It's six weeks since I have recieved a message.
2. It's six years since I have recieved that message.
Number two sounds wrong to me as a non-native speaker because of the use of "that". How does it sound to a native speaker?

Avangi · Accepted Answer

I agree. I believe the difference lies in the true progressive nature of the first example compared to the true perfect nature of the second. In other words in 1. you seem to be still waiting for a reply - any reply. In 2. you're simply stating the period of time which has just been completed. (It's not clear if that message is a specific transmission, or a specific group of words, like "tora tora tora.") I think simple past would be better in 2. Present perfect is tempting, but it's already built into "since."

Avangi · Answer

Sorry, I'm still trying to work my way through this.

I think if "that message" means "a similar message to the one I received six years ago," then present perfect is okay. (I.e., you may have just received it again.)

Doll · Answer

Just my tow cents:
In a context, if you state what the message is, you can say "that message". It depends on the context a bit. As for the present perfect tense use with since, I must tell that I didn't like it because when you last received that messsage is clearly stated: six years ago. However, you can use the present perfect tense with since like this:
It has been ages since I have played golf.
It has been weeks since I haven't seen him but not it has beena long time since he has been killed in 19, June.

Avangi · Answer

It clears up a bit if you make it negative:

I haven't received a message since six weeks ago. I haven't received that message since six years ago.

In both cases the message may come.

Avangi · Answer

Doll wrote: "It has been weeks since I haven't seen him but not it has been a long time since he has been killed in 19, June."

So it's only the context that tells us the occurrence can't be repeated. We can say, "It's been six years since he has suffered a heart attack."

Doll · Answer

Consider " a certain period of time " when you decide to use the present perfect tense.
It has been a while since I have never eaten an apple = I haven't eaten an apple for quite a long time.
It has been for a while since I have never argued with him= I haven't argued with him for a while.
If you talk about what you did some time ago, you use simple past:
It has been ages since I got my drivnig licence. But it has been ages since I haven't driven a car.
To sum up, death, birthday, new year, a particular celebration, graduation etc. can't be involved in the context of "a certain period of time".
My cousin Mary was born four months ago. It has been four months since I didn't see her or it has been for months since she was born. (something happened some time ago) It has been years since I haven't seen my cousin Mary ( Here, we are talking about a certain period of time)
Don't worry, it takes time and practice to make a diffrence between them!

Hoa Thai · Answer

Hi Doll,
If you'll forgive my saying so, I believe you misused the word since as a time marker.
First of all, the statement “I have never eaten an apple”does not point to a specific time in the past. By itself, it means in your entire life since the day you were born till now. Therefore, “since I have never eaten an apple” is awkward. Coupled that since clause with “It has been (a time period),” the entire sentence is not sound.
In all grammar lessons that I have reviewed, including those are made available online, I have only seen examples with ‘present perfect + since + simple past’ structure when since is used as a time indicator.
Does that mean the structure ‘present perfect + since + present perfect’ is ungrammatical?
In my opinion, such a structure is not wrong when the second present perfect is used to denote a point of time in the past. The simple past marks a specific point in time, while the present perfect tense marks an unspecific time, respectively as in: ‘It’s been awhile since I last saw your smile’ and ‘It’s been awhile since I’ve seen your smile’. However, as we can see, both tenses deal with a discrete event.
Therefore, the following sentence is acceptable:
It’s been awhile since I’ve eaten Fat John’s pizza = I have not eaten Fat John’s pizza for awhile. (eating he last Fat John’s pizza is a discrete event)
And to me this sentence is odd:
It’s been 5 years since I’ve worked for my company. (working for a company is a continuous action / effort).
That said, to all learners, I would suggest that they use the simple past tense in the since clause to mark time, especially when they take tests.

Hoa Thai · Answer

Hoa ThaiHi Doll,
If you'll forgive my saying so, I believe you misused the word since as a time marker.
First of all, the statement “I have never eaten an apple” does not point to a specific time in the past. By itself, it means in your entire life since the day you were born till now. Therefore, “since I have never eaten an apple” is awkward. Coupled that since clause with “It has been (a time period),” the entire sentence is not sound.
In all grammar lessons that I have reviewed, including those are made available online, I have only seen examples with ‘present perfect + since + simple past’ structure when since is used as a time indicator.
Does that mean the structure ‘present perfect + since + present perfect’ is ungrammatical?
In my opinion, such a structure is not wrong when the second present perfect is used to denote a point of time in the past. The simple past marks a specific point in time, while the present perfect tense marks an unspecific time, respectively as in: ‘It’s been awhile since I last saw your smile’ and ‘It’s been awhile since I’ve seen your smile’. However, as we can see, both tenses deal with a discrete event.
Therefore, the following sentence is acceptable:
It’s been awhile since I’ve eaten Fat John’s pizza = I have not eaten Fat John’s pizza for awhile. (eating the last Fat John’s pizza is a discrete event)
And to me this sentence is odd:
It’s been 5 years since I’ve worked for my company. (working for a company is a continuous action / effort).
That said, to all learners, I would suggest that they use the simple past tense in the since clause to mark time, especially when they take tests.

Since I was not allowed to edit my old post, I would like to add that one of the discrete past-marking usages of the present perfect tense is for denoting an experience.

Buddhaheart · Answer

I may also wish to add that if the main clause makes clear what kind of time we’re talking about, it’s usually unnecessary to repeat it in the subordinate clause. Use appropriate time in the main clause and use simpler (simple past instead of past perfect) tense structure in the subordinate.

Doll · Answer

Hi Hoa Toi,
I really feel happy when someone corrects my mistakes. We are here to learn! But when I read your post, I thought what I said so diffrent. I really wanted to say what you wrote. I either can't express the related points and after a while I start to add unrelated things or don't give good examples.

since + present perfect tense

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