should

Question

Was it right that just because he was born rich, he should be comfortable and happy.What exactly does this "should" mean in this sentence? It's from president Johnson's speech.

CalifJim · Accepted Answer

That should is not easy to paraphrase. would be entitled to comes to mind. The should lends the idea of entitlement, of a truth following as a matter of course from some other fact. It suggests a necessity relationship (being questioned in this case). It suggests a necessary reason. This is sometimes called "evaluative should", if I'm not mistaken. Here are some paraphrases.

Was it right that just because he was born rich, he would be entitled to be comfortable and happy?
Was it right that just because he was born rich, he would naturally be expected to be comfortable and happy?
Was it right that just because he was born rich, it would follow naturally/necessarily that he has the right to be comfortable and happy?
Was it right that being born rich was a valid reason for him to be comfortable and happy?

Compare:

Why should he get all the credit? I worked on the project, too!
What reasoning suggests that he is entitled to all the credit? I worked on the project, too!
In what way is it fair for him to get all the credit? I worked on the project, too!
Why does it follow necessarily that he has the right to get all the credit? I worked on the project, too!

And (with fact and reason):

The fact that this should be true is not obvious to me.
The fact that this is necessarily true is not obvious to me.

I don't see any reason that he should complain.
I see no reason for him to complain.

CJ

Teleostomi · Answer

[edited to remove long unneccessary quote)

Thank you CalifJim (your name sounds like a big name in the Middle East) That kind of "should" is ecactly what bothered and even tormented me for a long time. You know, "should" has many meanings. You clearly unpuzzled the enigma!

I have one more thing that I want to ask: Does each of (1) (2) and (3) have exactly the same meaning as (1') (2') and (3') respectively?

(1) Was it right that just because he was born rich, he should be comfortable and happy?
(2) Why should he get all the credit? I worked on the project, too!
(3) The fact that this should be true is not obvious to me.

(1') Was it right that just because he was born rich, he has to be comfortable and happy?
(2') Why does he have to get all the credit? I worked on the project, too!
(3') The fact that this has to be true is not obvious to me.

CalifJim · Answer

No, not exactly. But it's very similar. The versions with should show a more tentative form of the obligation inherent in have to. The similarity is greatest in 2, least in 1.

Incidentally, since I posted last it has occurred to me that deserve is another way of paraphrasing should in some cases.

Was it right that just because he was born rich, he deserves to be comfortable and happy?
Why does he deserve all the credit?

Not with the third one, however: *...that this deserves to be true ...

CJ

Teleostomi · Answer

Thanks, CalifJim,

They suggested (that) she (should) remain here until next week.

Do you think "should" in #1 sentence and this sentence have the same meaning?

Marius Hancu · Answer

Teleostomi

They suggested (that) she (should) remain here until next week.

Do you think "should" in #1 sentence and this sentence have the same meaning?

No.

In this sentence you have a suggestion. This is similar to the demands or orders. A suggestion isn't an entitlement/evaluation/logical connection, which CJ mentions for #1:
------
That should is not easy to paraphrase. would be entitled to comes to mind. The should lends the idea of entitlement, of a truth following as a matter of course from some other fact. It suggests a necessity relationship (being questioned in this case). It suggests a necessary reason. This is sometimes called "evaluative should", if I'm not mistaken.
------

CalifJim · Answer

Do you think "should" in #1 sentence and this sentence have the same meaning?

I think you'll find that each situation creates a slightly different meaning for should!

I don't see, however, why we couldn't broadly lump this one together with "evaluative should", because it represents an evaluation of a situation by the person who made the suggestion! On the other hand, there is a strong parallel with one of the core meanings of should: it is advisable that. suggest and advise are essentially the same, so the should is nearly redundant, and certainly can be omitted, as your parentheses show. The core meaning of advisability seems somehow to be neutralized by the presence of suggest earlier in the sentence.

They suggested something = They found something advisable (and said so).
She should remain here = It is advisable that she remain here.

They suggested that she should remain here until next week =
They found it advisable (and said so) that it is advisable that she remain here until next week.
= They offered for her consideration the idea that it would be advisable to remain here until next week.
= They offered for her consideration this idea: Remain here until next week.

Note the connection with the imperative in the last paraphrase. Suggestions, recommendations, and advice are weaker forms of the imperatives implicit in commands, demands, and orders. Thus, should is often a weak form of must (or have to, as you were asking about earlier in this thread).

CJ

Marius Hancu · Answer

Teleostomi:

I strongly suggest you get a good grammar book in your own language, and see how similar constructs are translated into it. That'll help you a lot.

Such constructs are not unique to English.

Teleostomi · Answer

Calif, Marius, thanks to your help I'm more confident with "should" than before!

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