sequence of tenses

Question

"She said it was similar to the one she has."  Why "have" in this sentence is in present tense? Is "had" also possible in this case? If yes - is there a difference in meaning?

Marius Hancu · Accepted Answer

had - much better in reported speech

CalifJim · Answer

had is possible and is the norm. With had you keep all the verbs in the past point of view.
However, you can use the present tense (but you don't have to), even when the preceding verb is in the past, if the situation still exists. So has is used to indicate that she still has it.

CJ

BarbaraPA · Answer

Whoops. Sorry. See below.

BarbaraPA · Answer

The present tense makes perfect sense to me, which always makes me think I'm missing something.

I told my sister that I was thinking about getting a Pontiac Vibe and asked what she thought. She said it was similar to the car she has.

I asked Mary whether she thought this plasma TV was a good deal. She thought so, and said it was similar to the one she has.

Is the suggestion that if we want to keep it "has," the "was" should be an "is"? She said it IS similar to the one she HAS?

Siggy · Answer

In "She said it was similar to the one she has," the use of "has" suggests that whatever it is that she owns, she still owns it. If the word "had" had been used, that would have suggested that she no longer possesses "it."

The verb "has" can be used as both an auxiliary verb and a lexical verb; and in the latter case, it typically means "to own" or "to possess." If you change the sentence to "She said is was similar to the one she owns" or "She said it was similar to the one she owned," you'll see that both are still valid, but you get a better idea of whether she's talking about something she still possesses or something she no longer possesses.

Siggy

CalifJim · Answer

If the word "had" had been used, that would have suggested that she no longer possesses "it."

No, not at all. It that were true, then

She said it was similar to the one she [owns/has].

would also mean that it used to be (was) similar but now it's different. This is clearly not the intended meaning.

Backshifting is automatically understood as a convention in which the literal tense in the backshifted clause is not necessarily the true tense/time of the situation.

If I now say, for example,

In answering a post, I said that backshift was understood as a convention ...,

it does not suggest that it is no longer understood that way.

Similarly, She said it was similar to the one she owned
does not suggest that she no longer owns it. It is a possible reading, of course, but not necessarily the first interpretation that comes to the mind of the listener. used to own would help guide the listener to the "no longer owns it" choice -- if it were important to do so.

CJ

Marius Hancu · Answer

CalifJim Backshifting is automatically understood as a convention in which the literal tense in the backshifted clause is not necessarily the true tense/time of the situation.

This is my understanding too.

MrPedantic · Answer

Yes; I understand it in the same way as CJ:

1. "She said it was similar to the X she had."
— Always correct, regardless of whether she still has the X.

2. "She said it was similar to the X she has."
— Correct if she still has the X.

3. "She said it's similar to the X she had."
— Correct if she no longer has the X.

4. "She said it's similar to the X she has."
— Correct if she still has the X.

I've noticed that native speakers will happily use the #1 format, while they're speaking without paying conscious attention to their grammar; but once they notice the apparent anomaly, doubt will set in.

MrP

Marius Hancu · Answer

From Jespersen, historical examples of back-shifting of "ethernal truths":
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In the following instances, we have "ethernal truths" or something similar shifted to the preterit [past tense]:

Chaucer:
I seyde, his opinion was good

Bunyan:
at that time I felt what guilt was

Defoe:
they put one another in mind that there was a ***

Franklin:
my father convinced me that nothing was useful which was not honest

Goldsmith:
I was ever of opinion, that the honest man who married and brought up a large family, did more service that he who continued single | It was a saying of his that no man was sure of his supper till he had eaten it

Hunt:
nobody felt more instinctively that forms were necessary to preserve essence

Barrie:
had it not been for her conviction that reading was idling

Galsworthy
he thought that, to see things as they were, meant, to try to make them worse.

Otto Jespersen, A Modern English Grammar, part IV, p. 154
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Marius Hancu · Answer

Also from Jespersen, historical examples of cases where back-shifting hasn't been applied:
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Finally, I give some examples in which the tense has not been adjusted to that of the chief {main - M. Hancu} verb:

Shakespeare:
I should be still Plucking the grasse to know where sits the wind [more vivid than: sat; note still]

Ellis:
It was firmly believed that the frontal region is the seat of the highest intellectual processes

Hope:
I didn't even know that the count was gone, much less why he's gone [perhaps on account of the distance from didn't know; or else because it means: much less do I know ...]

Wells:
Joan knew that it is the feminine role to lead conversation

Shaw:
Pythagoras--A sage who held that the earth is round, and that it moves round the sun

Sutro:
if men knew what women are made of, the world would come to an end pretty soon.

Note the following two quotations: in the first the speaker corrects herself; in the second the tag question is perhaps the reason for the present

Ferber
She was the first person to tell me what beauty was--is.

Rose Macaulay:
Perhaps they also said on Orphan Island that the world was small, that boys would be boys, that we've only one life, haven't we.

Onions quotes such colloquial sentences as:
He had no idea what twice two is [also was]
I asked the guard what time the train usually starts.

[All comments in parantheses by Jespersen]

Otto Jespersen, A Modern English Grammar, part IV, p. 158
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