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person1: My favourite though was Alice who I have/had never met before.
But person 1 has already met her.

I haven't/hadn't seen her before yesterday.
I haven't/hadn't seen her until yesterday.

I'm confused with hadn't and haven't/

Anonymous · Accepted Answer

Anonymousperson1: My favourite though was Alice who I have/had never met before.But person 1 has already met her.I haven't/hadn't seen her before yesterday.I haven't/hadn't seen her until yesterday.I'm confused with hadn't and haven't/

I haven't/hadn't seen her before yesterday.

I haven't/hadn't seen her until yesterday.

I haven't seen her before. ('Before', here, is an adverb which connects you with the present; you may say, now, that you are somehow intrigued with/interested in/attracted to her or state the very fact of not seeing her before the time of speaking, thus the present perfect.)

I hadn't seen her until yesterday. ('yesterday' is an adverb which put the fact of seeing her into the closed past, hence the past perfect.)

PS: I'm a bit uncomfortable with the phrase 'before yesterday'. But if I was made to use it I'd prefer the past perfect.

CalifJim · Answer

Anonymousperson1: My favourite though was Alice who I ~~have/~~had never met before.
But person 1 has already met her.

X = the present moment; the time you say the sentence
>>> time moves to the right >>>

......................[ my favourite was Alice].............X

<------------ I have never met Alice before ---------- X] (before now)

______________________________________________

......................[ my favourite was Alice]............X
I had never |

< met Alice ]............................................X
before | (before that time)

______________________________________________

I have never met Alice before contradicts (I met her and) she was my favourite.
So you can't use I have never met ....

In other words, if you say that your favourite was Alice, then it must be that you met her. If you met her, you would be telling a lie if you said "I have never met her".

CJ

CalifJim · Answer

AnonymousI haven't/hadn't seen her before yesterday.
I haven't/hadn't seen her until yesterday.

See the diagrams in my previous post. The principle is the same.

Your reference time with the present perfect (haven't seen) is now.
Your reference time with the past perfect (hadn't seen) is in the past.

You use "yesterday" as your reference time in both of your sentences above. That is a reference time in the past, so you can't use the present perfect tense.

CJ

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