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Do these all sound OK and have the same meaning?

I will become tired when I see my instructor tomorrow.
I will become tired when I have seen my instructor teacher tomorrow.
I will become tired once I see my instructor tomorrow.
I will become tired once I have seen my instructor tomorrow.

Clive · Accepted Answer

Hi,

Can you please explain the underlying meaning a little?

All of these make me think that there is something about the instructor's physical appearance that makes people tired. I doubt that you mean this.

Clive

Anonymous · Answer

All four sentences are grammatical - from a purely theoretical-technical grammatical point of view. The first means you will become tired when you see your instructor tomorrow - and the implication is that the tiredness will occur at the moment you see him or shortly thereafter, but in any case during the time that you are with him. The second implies that you will become tired after you have seen the instructor tomorrow. The third is similar to the first: you'll be tired during your meeting with the instructor. The fourth is similar to the second: you will become tired after seeing the instructor.

However, the situation described in all of them is strange-sounding - almost otherworldly. These are not sentences you'd hear in real life. You'd probably hear instead something like:

Meeting with my instructor tomorrow is going to be tiring.
Once I'm done meeting with my instructor tomorrow, I'm going to be through for the day.
Meeting with that instructor tomorrow is going to be exhausting.
After I'm through meeting with that instructor, I'll be totally zonked.

Taka · Answer

If it were 'nervous' instead of 'tired' as:

I will become nervous when I see my instructor tomorrow.
I will become nervous when I have seen my instructor teacher tomorrow.
I will become nervous once I see my instructor tomorrow.
I will become nervous once I have seen my instructor tomorrow.

how would they sound? Do they all work?

(I know 'nervous' and 'tired' don't mean the same thing, but as it's not the point of the question, I've changed it: the point of my question this time is 'present perfect vs. present' in when/once clauses)

CalifJim · Answer

Taka'present perfect vs. present' in when/once clauses

Regardless of whether you use 'when' or 'once', the same principle applies.

The present suggests the beginning of the seeing of the instructor; the present perfect suggests the end of the seeing of the instructor. In other words 'once I see the instructor' ~ 'as soon as I see him' ~ 'the very moment I catch sight of him', whereas 'once I have seen the instructor' ~ 'at the end of my interaction with the instructor'. (Note that changing the tense can even suggest a different meaning of the verb 'see'.)

In this specific case I have to say that I prefer 'when' with the present and 'once' with the present perfect. I hesitate to generalize this preference to all possible combinations.

When I see him, I will become nervous, but once I've seen him, I'll become reassured and calm.

Likewise,

When you make your first dive from the high tower, it will seem very scary, but once you've made 30 dives, it will seem very ordinary.

Note that with the present, you are 'looking forward into the experience', so to speak, but with the present perfect, you are 'looking backward and summarizing the experience' (even though the look-back doesn't happen until some time in the future).

CJ

Taka · Answer

CalifJim Taka'present perfect vs. present' in when/once clausesRegardless of whether you use 'when' or 'once', the same principle applies.

Oh, was that anon you, Jim?

CalifJim.Note that with the present, you are 'looking forward into the experience', so to speak, but with the present perfect, you are 'looking backward and summarizing the experience' (even though the look-back doesn't happen until some time in the future).CJ

That's is Jim's comment, I have to say. A great one! Thanks!

CalifJim In this specific case I have to say that I prefer 'when' with the present and 'once' with the present perfect.

Would you come up a situation where you prefer 'once' with the present and 'when' with the present perfect?

CalifJim · Answer

TakaOh, was that anon you, Jim?

No. I never post as "Anonymous".

TakaWould you come up a situation where you prefer 'once' with the present and 'when' with the present perfect?

I couldn't think of any at the time of that previous posting. I still can't, but I'll add it here if I think of something.

CJ

Taka · Answer

Then would you come up a situation where you prefer 'once' with the present to that with the present prefect OR where you prefer 'when' with the present perfect to that with the present?

If you would, could you explain why?

CalifJim · Answer

Do you mean 'that' rather than that? (two places)

If so, can you set up a skeleton of what you're talking about? I'm quickly getting lost.

Are you talking about these kinds of sentences?

Once ... present ..., MAIN CLAUSE.

MAIN CLAUSE that ... present. (I will become tired that I see my instructor tomorrow???)

If so, I don't understand where you're going with all this. How do 'that' clauses come into it?

CJ

Taka · Answer

Sorry about the confusion. It shouldn't have been 'that'. I made a grammatical mistake there. What I meant was this:

Then would you come up a situation where you prefer 'once' with the present to 'once' with the present prefect OR where you prefer 'when' with the present perfect to 'when' with the present?

(Could I omit the second 'once/when' (i.e. ...to with the present prefect/to with the present), by the way?)

CalifJim · Answer

Takaa situation where you prefer 'once' with the present to 'once' with the present prefect

Once I get there, I'll give you the details.
Once they are seated, serve them the appetizer.
Once we decide on the destination, we can make travel plans.

Takawhere you prefer 'when' with the present perfect to 'when' with the present?

When I have seen them, I'll give you my opinion about them.
When they have finished, clear the table.
When they have fallen asleep, we'll take their weapons and escape.
___________

None of these preferences are very strong.

TakaCould I omit the second 'once/when' (i.e. ...to with the present prefect/to with the present), by the way?

No. It doesn't sound right without that repetition.

CJ

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