Scyscraper - cloudscraper - skyskraber - Wolkenkratzer

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Hi allIn the Danish newsgroup about language, dk.kultur.sprog, we have been discussing the word "skyscraper" and the Danish and German parallels which are "skyskraber" and "Wolkenkratzer". In Danish there is only this one word, but in German one may also see "Himmelkratzer".I am therefore crossposting this message to that group also, and you are welcome to crosspost the answers as well.English - Danish - German:cloud = sky = Wolkesky = himmel = Himmelheaven = himmel = HimmelIt seems that the word "skyscraper" was used in the late 1800's. Is it older?We have found "cloudscraper" both in old texts (1930+) and in recent texts. Is it commonly used?Which word came first?If one just looks at the words, it appears that Danish has been a transit language between English and German (sky =&gt; sky =&gt; Wolke or vice versa), but that is impropable. Do you know how the word has spread, or whether it has appeared independantly in the different countries?Similar expression seem to be very old (1500+) used about unusually high people.Bertelhttp://bertel.lundhansen.dk/	FIDUSO: http://fiduso.dk/

Usenet · Accepted Answer

[nq:1]Hi all In the Danish newsgroup about language, dk.kultur.sprog, we have been discussing the word "skyscraper" and the Danish and ... has appeared independantly in the different countries? Similar expression seem to be very old (1500+) used about unusually high people.[/nq]
OED has 'skyscraper' from 1794 as a nautical term
1. Naut. A triangular sky-sail.
1794 Rigging & Seamanship 135 Sky-scrapers. These sails are triangular..

2. colloq. a. A high-standing horse. (A horse named Skyscraper, sired byHighflyer, won the Epsom Derby in 1789
b. A very tall man.

1857 Slang Dict. 19, I say, old sky-scraper, is it cold up there?c. A rider on one of the high cycles formerly in use.
1892 Daily News 7 Mar. 6/6 Riders of the ordinary (cycle), and are often derisively styled 'sky-scrapers'. ?d. A tall hat or bonnet. Obs.

1800 W. Scott Let. 5 Apr. (1937) XII. 159 The trumpets call me to swaggerin a cockd skyscraper and sword.
e. In Baseball, Cricket, etc., a ball propelled high in the air; a towering hit, a skyer.

1866 N.Y. Herald 27 June 5/5 Goodspeed made three handsome fly catches;Mehl, Sweet and Dupignac each paying their share of attention to the 'skyscrapers'.

3. An exaggerated or 'tall' story. nonce-use.
1841 Lever C. O'Malley ***, My yarn won't come so well after yoursky-scrapers of love.

4. A high building of many stories, esp. one of those characteristic ofAmerican cities.
(1883 J. Moser in Amer. Architect & Building News 30 June 305 The capitol building should always have a dome. I should raise thereon a gigantic 'sky-scraper', contrary to all precedent in practice.)

So the use for buildings is not cited earlier than 1883.

OED doesn't seem to know 'cloudscraper' and I don't recollect hearing it myself.

John Dean
Oxford
De-frag to reply

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John Dean skrev:
[nq:1]So the use for buildings is not cited earlier than 1883.[/nq]
Thanks for a lot of info.
[nq:1]OED doesn't seem to know 'cloudscraper' and I don't recollect hearing it myself.[/nq]
I found it on this page:
http://www.sah.org/aame/biob.html
Search on the page for "cloudscraper".

Bertel
http://bertel.lundhansen.dk/ FIDUSO: http://fiduso.dk/

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Speaking of skyscrapers, I had heard that all of the New York City skyscrapers are in Manhattan, except for one in Queens. True?

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John Dean:
[nq:2]OED doesn't seem to know 'cloudscraper' and I don't recollect hearing it myself.[/nq]
Bertel Hansen:
[nq:1]I found it on this page: http://www.sah.org/aame/biob.html[/nq]
# An architect, died in Minneapolis, Minnesota, February 16, 1931. # He was born in Cincinnati, Ohio in 1848. He was the designer of # the first skyscraper. At the patent office in Washington the # original drawing and the grant of a patent, 1888, on the world's # first skyscraper are on file. He called his dream building a # "cloudscraper". One of his old drawings showed plans for a building # one hundred stories high. ...
First, I was somewhat surprised to see that the Society of Archi- tectural Historians thinks that there *is* such a thing as a "first skyscraper", when the word is usually defined in vague terms like "a very tall building" (as puts it). Evidently they have a more specific criterion in mind; perhaps Jim Ward also did in his branch of the thread where he asked which boroughs of New York have them.
Anyway, it sounds from the passage as though "cloudscraper" was an attempted* neologism that never caught on. Or as Bill Bryson would say, here once again we have a case of an inventor who *did not know the correct name for his invention.
Once you exclude the "Krosan Cloudscraper" that comes up in a certain game, Google still has almost 100 hits on "cloudscraper". Some refer to tall buildings, some to other tall objects such as transmission towers# or mountains.
# - Some people might count these as buildings I see that the CN Tower management now asserts at a claim to its being the world's "tallest building". When constructed it was carefully described only as the "tallest freestanding structure", on the grounds that a "building" must have enclosed space designed for occupancy over most of its height, and I would agree with that.
Mark Brader We say, "But it wasn't designed to do that!"; Toronto our managers say, "Our customers want this!"; (Email Removed) we say, "Small is beautiful!"; and they say, "Money is beautiful!" Andrew Tannenbaum
My text in this article is in the public domain.

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Jim Ward:
[nq:1]Speaking of skyscrapers, I had heard that all of the New York City skyscrapers are in Manhattan, except for one in Queens. True?[/nq]
First you have to define "skyscraper". Apparently the tallest building in New York outside Manhattan is indeed in Queens, the Citibank Tower at about 650 feet; but Brooklyn's Williamsburgh Savings Bank Building is 512 feet tall.
My googling didn't turn up any notably tall buildings in the other two boroughs, though.

Mark Brader "After all, it is necessary to get behind Toronto someone before you can stab them in the back." (Email Removed) Lynn & Jay, "Yes, Prime Minister"

My text in this article is in the public domain.

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[nq:2]Hi all In the Danish newsgroup about language, dk.kultur.sprog, we ... word, but in German one may also see "Himmelkratzer".(large snip)[/nq]
[nq:1]So the use for buildings is not cited earlier than 1883.[/nq]
I wonder whether it has been used since the 1970s. "High rise" seems to have taken over.

Rob Bannister

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[nq:2]As a Former Queens Resident (TWDLTTAT)[/nq]
[nq:1]Those Were the Days... uh...huh?[/nq]
"Though we don't like to talk about that". :-)

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[nq:1]Similar expression seem to be very old (1500+) used about unusually high people.[/nq]
Hvor meget hash skal man have røget for at blive betegnet "unusually high"?

Mvh
Jimmy

Usenet · Answer

Thus spake Jimmy:
[nq:2]Similar expression seem to be very old (1500+) used about unusually high people.[/nq]
[nq:1]Hvor meget hash skal man have røget for at blive betegnet "unusually high"?[/nq]
Dunno; never done it.

Simon R. Hughes

Scyscraper - cloudscraper - skyskraber - Wolkenkratzer

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