reported speech

Question

hi,I just have a quick question about reported speech. Which sentence is better, and why?ORIGINAL SENTENCEWhat do you think it was?  1.HE WANTED TO KNOW WHAT IT WAS    or2.HE WANTED TO KNOW WHAT IT HAD BEENIn my opinion the first one is a better one, but so far I haven't found any reasonable explanation, except for it sounds better.And what about 'Why didn't you tell me something was wrong?'. How would you go about this one??thx

Eimai_Anglos · Accepted Answer

A. He wanted to know what I thought it was.

B. He wanted to know why I didn't tell him (that) something was wrong.

Eimai_Anglos · Answer

or maybe:-
B. He wanted to know why I hadn't told him (that) something was wrong.

LordBath · Answer

so what about the backshift? not necessary?  why?

Huevos · Answer

He asked me what I thought it was.
He asked me why I hadn't told him something was wrong.

Seme · Answer

You don't have to backshift when the information you're reporting has not changed, when it is still true at the present time. If you do it is still grammatically correct but people may assume the situation is different now.

So it depends on context. For example if I meet a guy on the street and he says "I'm 25 years old..."

The next day I will report that as "He said he's 25 years old" because unless his birthday was that very day ... he still *is* 25 years old. However two or three years later I might report it as "He said he was 25 years old" because now that information is no longer still true in the present. In your example it's too difficult to say A is better than B because there is no context. "It" is so general

LordBath · Answer

no disrespect meant but so far the question still hasn't been answered.

if the original sentence is ' What do you think it was?' and the correct transformation into the reported speech is 'He wanted to know what I thought it was' then why the 'think' part has been altered but the 'was' part hasn't?? I'm pretty sure there is some explanation.

thx

Huevos · Answer

LordBath'He wanted to know what I thought it was' then why the 'think' part has been altered but the 'was' part hasn't?? I'm pretty sure there is some explanation.

Simple present backshifts to simple past. Simple past backshifts to simple past.

Seme · Answer

Well now I want to cry, I spent about a good 20 minutes typing out a clearer explanation only to have the forum eat it. It's completely gone.

Needless to say I'm not going to retype the whole thing. So I apologize if this seems rudely short ... this is what is comes down to: We backshift in reported speech because the action of speaking is taking place in the past. If it's something said five minutes ago you don't have to backshift, if it's something said five months ago you do. So "think" becomes "thought"

"it was" does not have to become "it had been" because the "it" may be something that is still true in the present. Here are two examples:

"I was walking in the woods with LordBath when something in the bushes moved. He wanted to know what I thought it was. I said probably just a cat." Here the question is "What was that thing in the bushes?" the answer is a cat. The cat is still now a cat. It will be a cat six months from now or two years from now. So no backshift is needed.

On the other hand: "I was walking in the woods with LordBath when something in the bushes moved. I pushed aside the branches but there was nothing there. He wanted to know what I thought it had been. I said probably just a cat." Here the original question is the same but the 'it' === the cause of the movement. Since the movement has stopped the answer is not still true now, so we retain the backshift.

In practice though the difference in meaning is so tiny, so small that probably no one would notice if you switched them.

Huevos · Answer

Seme, does your theory hold water for verbs other than "to be".

Seme · Answer

Not a theory

The classic example is with scientific facts, things that are always true no matter what the time. So if the doctor says "Water freezes at 0 Degrees C" I report that as "He said water freezes at..."

Although technically (and after a quick search I see that there are many good threads on this forum that go into detail on this) this is a difference between the way we are supposed to speak and the way we actually speak. The very very strict grammar is to always backshift, but in practice people don't do that and from time to time backshifting when the situation you are describing is still true can lead to confusion. That confusion usually disappears in the course of conversation because people don't just report random sentences they use reported speech in a story or explanation.

There are some teachers (and students) who want to be very strict about grammar rules, and I respect that (even agree with it sometimes) but there are lots of times when the rules do not live up to everyday English. After all when I was in school we weren't supposed to split infinitives, yet because everyone does it all the time that's no longer taught as a grammar rule anymore.

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