reported speech

Question

Hi,everyone.Please help me,I often get confused with reported speech:(.

for example:

1.He said that I had been the reason that had led to my parent's divorce

because I rewrite it from this sentence: ''you were the reason that led to your parent's divorce'' he said.

But my teacher told me that it was wrong,it should be :people said that I had been the reason that led to our parent's divorce

please explain to me why it should be '' led'' instead of had led?

Similarly:

2.He said that when I had been born,I often caused a lot of troubles.

My teacher rewrote it as follow: '' He said that when I was born........''

please explain to me why I can't write :had been born?

thanks in advance

Philip · Accepted Answer

Green89Hi,everyone.Please help me,I often get confused with reported speech:(.

for example:

1.He said that I was the reason that led to my parent's divorce

because I rewrite it from this sentence: ''you were the reason that led to your parent's divorce'' he said.

But my teacher told me that it was wrong,it should be :people said that I had been the reason that led to our parent's divorce

please explain to me why it should be '' led'' instead of had led?

Similarly:

2.He said that after I was born,I often caused a lot of troubles.

My teacher rewrote it as follow: '' He said that when I was born........''

please explain to me why I can't write :had been born?

thanks in advance

I've offered no reasons for what I suggest. That could come later, if you need.

CalifJim · Answer

By the way, it should be "parents'". I'm surprised your teacher didn't mention that.

Direct: "You were the reason that led to your parents' divorce,'' he said (to me).
Reported: He [said / told me] that I was the reason that led to my parents' divorce.

Direct: "When you were born, you often caused a lot of troubles," he said (to me).
Reported: He [said / told me] that I often caused a lot of troubles when I was born.

You can backshift the tenses to "had ...", but that is often done only in the main clause. The "had ..." is more or less understood in the subordinate clause.

He said that I had been the reason that led to my parents' divorce.
He said that I had often caused a lot of troubles when I was born.

It would be worth it for you to continue to pay attention to this thread, because others will have different explanations.

CJ

Anonymous · Answer

Thank you,but I still don't understand why I don't need to go back one tense in the sentence: ''I was born '' to I had been born?

thanks

Philip · Answer

CalifJimBy the way, it should be "parents'". I'm surprised your teacher didn't mention that.

Good catch, Jim. It's always amazing how we zero in on one thing and often miss the others. The day after you corrected the 'parents' question, I was in a church office where the administrator had on the computer screen a newsletter she was preparing. I barely glanced at the screen, but this just jumped out at me immediately: "Parent's Night Out" (teens volunteer to babysit while parents go out for dinner and a movie).

CalifJim · Answer

Philip,

Yes, and isn't it amazing how, when our attention is directed toward something one day, during the next ten days it pops up all over the place! It was always there, but we never noticed it before.

This is called "enlightenment"!

Jim

CalifJim · Answer

"I still don't understand why I don't need to go back one tense"

I assume you mean when "I was born" is the main clause, not a subordinate clause.

That's an excellent question. Unfortunately, I do not have an excellent answer to go with it!

It may have to do with the unusual nature of the expression "be born", but I'll need to think about it. In the meantime, maybe others will have some good ideas.

CJ

Clive · Answer

Hi guys,

He said that I had been the reason that had led to my parent's divorce

.... I rewrite it from this sentence: ''you were the reason that led to your parent's divorce'' he said.

But my teacher told me that it was wrong,it should be : people said that I had been the reason that led to our parent's divorce

I realize the focus of the thread is on tenses, but I'd like to add a brief comment on the 'persons' involved. Strictly speaking, in the direct speech given, there is no indication that more than one person said this. So, I wouldn't write 'people said ...' in the reported speech. Nor is there anything in the direct speech to indicate the remark was addressed to me, the reporter. Perhaps it was said to someone else in the room. Strictly speaking, the third party form should be used.

I'd say He said that the other person had been the reason that led to his parents' divorce.

As you can see, this makes it a little trickier, although not impossible, to work out who the parents belong to.

Best wishes, Clive

MrPedantic · Answer

I don't much care for the sample sentences:

1. People said that I had been the reason that led to our parent's divorce.

Surely:

1a. People said that I was the reason for our parent's divorce.

2. He said that when I was born, I often caused a lot of troubles.

"Often" suggests a lengthy period; but "when I was born" suggests a quite brief period. And "a lot of troubles" doesn't seem idiomatic.

Maybe:

2a. He said that when I was a baby, I often caused a lot of trouble.

MrP

CalifJim · Answer

MrP,

So, to turn this back to the reported speech topic, is the reported version of the past also the past?

He said, "When I was a baby, I often caused a lot of trouble".
He said that when I was a baby, I often caused a lot of trouble.

Something tells me that it is. I don't see any special need to resort to the past perfect unless the direct speech has the present perfect, thus:

He said, "You have been nothing but trouble since the day you were born".
He said that you had been nothing but trouble since the day you were born.

(to keep with the blame-the-nasty-child theme!)

Briefly stated, I'm asking what the traditional grammars give as the "conversion rules" for these "sequence of tenses" problems.

CJ

MrPedantic · Answer

Hello CJ

That's how I see it too; though I'm sure I've seen a "simple past to past perfect" conversion recommended sometimes. But I'm hard pressed to think of an example.

Maybe the past perfect can be used to resolve an ambiguity:

1. I wanted to read the book before it became popular.

2. He said he wanted to read the book before it became popular. [focus on reading preceding popularity]

3. He said he had wanted to read the book before it became popular. [focus on wanting preceding popularity]

MrP

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