Relative Clauses and their Antecedents

Question

Would you please tell me which of the following are incorrect and more importantly why?

Grammatically, I can't see anything wrong with any of them but d with no preposition.

a. The position remains active until the listed closing date/5pm, at which we will be in contact.

b. The position remains active until the listed closing date/5pm, which we will be in contact at.

c. The position remains active until the listed closing date/5pm, at which point we will be in contact.

d. The position remains active until the listed closing date/5pm, which we will be in contact.

1. I will be around the area at 5pm, which I'll pick you up at.

2. I will be around the area at 5pm, at which I'll pick you up.

3. I will be around the area at 5pm, at which time I'll pick you up.

Thank you

Mister Micawber · Accepted Answer

Only C is OK of the first set and only #3 of the second.  The noun ('point'/'time') and fronted preposition ('at which') are both needed.

English 1b3 · Answer

Thanks for this, MM.

Mister MicawberThe noun ('point'/'time') and fronted preposition ('at which') are both needed.

Please can you tell me why the noun 'point/time' is needed, when with most examples, like the following, the noun is optional?

I attended High School for five years, during which I played soccer, tennis and the trumpet.

I also don't understand why we need the noun because if we rearrange the relative clause, it is clear it makes sense:

The position remains active until the listed closing date/5pm, at which we will be in contact.

The position remains active until the listed closing date/5pm, at 5pm (which) we will be in contact.

We will be in contact at 5pm (which).

And why is it essential that we place the preposition before the pronoun in this case?

Thank you

Mister Micawber · Answer

Well, I suppose 'during' refers to the whole preceding clause, while the 'at' of your earlier refers to the point of time. I don't know about 'most examples'.

The rest I leave to a higher level grammarian to explain why they sound impossible. Maybe the noun is needed to avoid confusion with the other noun ('position').

Ivanhr · Answer

I attended High School for five years, during which I played soccer, tennis and the trumpet.

The which in the above sentence functions as a pronoun replacing the five years.

In all of your other sentences "which" functions as an adjective and requires a noun to follow it.

English 1b3 · Answer

Hi there,

But my question still remains. Why does which need a noun after it in the 'other' examples, but not in this one? And I'm pretty sure I've read that 'which' in 'which time' is still a pronoun. Maybe I'll have to look for the source.

Ivanhr · Answer

At which point/time (which is an adjective here)

"Which" requires a noun when used adjectively.

English 1b3 · Answer

IvanhrWhich" requires a noun when used adjectively.

Hi,

Yes, but why does 'which' need to be an adjective/determiner of the noun is my question. It seems to me that it could easily just be a relative pronoun, which refers to the antecedent '5pm.'

I played soccer for five years, during which I played as a striker, a midfielder, and a goalie.

You agree that here we can remove 'time' and thus 'which' becomes the pronoun referring to five years.

But in the example we are discussing, why can't 'time' be omitted also, leaving 'which' to refer to '5pm'?

Thanks

Ivanhr · Answer

English 1b3
IvanhrWhich" requires a noun when used adjectively.

Hi,

I played soccer for five years, during which I played as a striker, a midfielder, and a goalie.

You agree that here we can remove 'time' and thus 'which' becomes the pronoun referring to five years. Yes

But in the example we are discussing, why can't 'time' be omitted also, leaving 'which' to refer to '5pm'?

Thanks

I guess the reason for this is that 5pm also requires the preposition at to precede it (at 5 pm), which dictates the adjectival use of "which". (at which point/time). I'm afraid, I can't offer you a better explanation.

Relative Clauses and their Antecedents

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