Record album versus record album holder

Question

So I damaged a couple of my 78 rpm record albums, and I wanted to buy replacements.
So I searched on ebay for 78 record album and I got loads of
78 records.

Then I searched on empty 78 record album and I got lots of records with titles like "Empty arms", "My life is empty", etc.

Following the first list for quite a few pages, I finally found listings for what I want under 78 record album holder .

So apparently enough people now think that the album is the record, even when the record has only one song on it, and the thing you put the records in is a record album HOLDER. I noticed at least 40 years ago that people now called one 33 1/3 LP record an album, but I had hoped they would still realize why they said that. The presence of 45 rpm records helped that. But now, even those who know the difference between a record and an album are forced to use the anachonistic at least term "holder" if they want to find what they want or be found.
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for some reason, remove NOPSAM :-)

Usenet · Accepted Answer

[nq:1]So I damaged a couple of my 78 rpm record albums, and I wanted to buy replacements. So I searched ... forced to use the anachonistic at least term "holder" if they want to find what they want or be found.[/nq]
I understand the point you're making, but usage has long since moved on. In the record biz, any collection of multiple tracks is an "album," regardless of physical format. You can record "albums" on your iPod or other MP3 recorder, list them in the contents as "albums," and play them back by selecting the desired "album." Long before the advent of MP3, LPs were called "albums" almost without any regard to their content, to distinguish them from two-song 78s and 45s.
And yes, the result is that the physical embodiment of the "album" as so defined now has be described by physical characteristics, e.g., LP, 78, MP3, tape, and the things that hold them have their own separate names sleeve, jacket, jewel box, etc. If you want something to hold 78s, as you discovered, you have little choice but to use "holder" or something similar.
Time marches on, and an album plays the march tune.

Bob Lieblich, AmEclectic
Whose parents' 78s hit the landfill decades ago

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]I understand the point you're making, but usage has long since moved on. In the record biz, any collection of multiple tracks is an "album," regardless of physical format.[/nq]
Before I looked at the actual eBay listings, I would have said you were being overly generous about the "album holder" people's understanding of "album," and guessed that they were using it the way I most often hear from people who don't collect records themselves, to mean any disk wider than 7 inches. Only after they handle an album of 78s for a while and start talking about an album that holds a bunch of albums does the light come on.
After looking, though, now I don't see what mm's problem is at all. None of the "album holder" listings I find say they're holders for record albums. They're all described as albums that hold records, exactly what mm was looking for. Moreover, on the first page of results for "78 record album" I see half a dozen listings for empty albums.

¬R http://users.bestweb.net/~notr/magictop.html Who sneezed in my arpeggio? My beautiful arpeggio!

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]So I damaged a couple of my 78 rpm record albums, and I wanted to buy replacements. So I searched ... forced to use the anachonistic at least term "holder" if they want to find what they want or be found.[/nq]
What's wrong with 'sleeve'?
DC

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]So I damaged a couple of my 78 rpm record ... they want to find what they want or be found.[/nq]
[nq:1]What's wrong with 'sleeve'?[/nq]
The 78 albums (holders) were several sleeves with front and back covers. Similar, to the very young who haven't had experience with 78s, to a photo display album that holds Xn photos.

Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]What's wrong with 'sleeve'?[/nq]
[nq:1]The 78 albums (holders) were several sleeves with front and back covers. Similar, to the very young who haven't had experience with 78s, to a photo display album that holds Xn photos[/nq]
We had 78s around the place when I was a sprog, in fact there's probably still a few about in the loft. I've never seen anything such as you describe though, Tone. Maybe a pondian thing. Maybe compatriots are poised to leap in to naysay me...
DC

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]The 78 albums (holders) were several sleeves with front and ... 78s, to a photo display album that holds Xn photos[/nq]
[nq:1]We had 78s around the place when I was a sprog, in fact there's probably still a few about in the loft. I've never seen anything such as you describe though, Tone. Maybe a pondian thing.[/nq]
Might be; seems a bit surprising if it is, though.

(I have a 5-disc set of Sheherezade that belonged to my grandfather that's as Tony describes, but it's a Canadian RCA Victor issue.)

Cheers, Harvey
CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]The 78 albums (holders) were several sleeves with front and ... 78s, to a photo display album that holds Xn photos[/nq]
[nq:1]We had 78s around the place when I was a sprog, in fact there's probably still a few about in ... such as you describe though, Tone. Maybe a pondian thing. Maybe compatriots are poised to leap in to naysay me...[/nq]
While 78 singles were sold, most 78s that I remember were sets. Paul Robeson's "Songs of the Red Army", for example. I still have that, but it's packed away somewhere. There were five or six 78s in one album; each in a sleeve like a page of the album.
Lottsa photographs on the web of these multi-record 78 albums, but they all show a flat image of the cover. None, that I could find, show an angle that would explain the "page" construction.

Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]We had 78s around the place when I was a ... Maybe compatriots are poised to leap in to naysay me...[/nq]
[nq:1]While 78 singles were sold, most 78s that I remember were sets. Paul Robeson's "Songs of the Red Army", for ... a flat image of the cover. None, that I could find, show an angle that would explain the "page" construction.[/nq]
Wait...here's one from eBay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Vic-Damone-78-rpm-Record-Album-A-Young-Man-Sings W0QQitemZ120211636328QQihZ002QQcategoryZ306QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://tinyurl.com/2hhl7j

Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]We had 78s around the place when I was a ... Maybe compatriots are poised to leap in to naysay me...[/nq]
[nq:1]While 78 singles were sold, most 78s that I remember were sets. Paul[/nq]
Either this was later, or your family had more money than my mother did. She bought records one at a time, and bought albums separately to put them in. Each album holds 10 records iirc. (Maybe I'll get up and go look before I post this.

)
Actually, she probably bought most of the albums at one time, because they are "lettered" B, C, D, E, F, G. There is no A iirc. Maybe my mother ruined that one herself. That would make me feel better if she messed up one too.
Plus there is a table that has wooden partitions such that two albums fit in each slot, for a total of 8 albums and a few others, like Peter and the Wolf, and some 6" children's records that are the size of 45's but built to run at 78. "Poor Mr. Flibberty Jib" and some others.

Atop the table is the record player, in a compact wooden cabinet, with a steel tone arm, with a light on it that goes on when I lift it off of its resting perch. It uses steel needles, guaranteed to play 10 records. (After that they would be dull and damage the recorrds.) The record player only has two tubes, and no output stage and no speaker. To play records, one needs to turn on a fairly nearby AM radio and tune to the right station, 1650 iirc. This has the advantage that, in this age of many radios, one can play the same song in every room in the house.
I also have a hi-fi stereo** with a 4-speed turntable, and iirc, the records didn't sound any better on it. But I'll admit I didn't play them too often. Since they only last 3 minutes, it's a lot of work, and I don't like playing pre-recorded music anyhow. I like the radio, where some guy is paid to change the records, and I don't know what is coming next.
**Stereo, is of course, not the same as hi-fi, and not every stereo is hi-fi. Maybe at first it was, but now they have stereos with 1" speakers.
[nq:1]Robeson's "Songs of the Red Army", for example. I still have that, but it's packed away somewhere. There were five ... a flat image of the cover. None, that I could find, show an angle that would explain the "page" construction.[/nq]
There are such ads on Ebay. Of course the one that Tony found, even if it were empty, is not what I want because it says Vic Damone all over it. There are some really nice empty, nameless albums for sale, and some blah ones, but they are so far all 10 to 0 years younger than what I want. I want the 20's or maybe the 30's.
If I do find what I want, it might be more expensive than the 15 dollars some of the nice ones seem to be selling for now.
If you are inclined to email me
for some reason, remove NOPSAM :-)

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]I understand the point you're making, but usage has long ... of multiple tracks is an "album," regardless of physical format.[/nq]
[nq:1]Before I looked at the actual eBay listings, I would have said you were being overly generous about the "album ... what mm's problem is at all. None of the "album holder" listings I find say they're holders for record albums.[/nq]
It's that they are called "holders". They only need be called albums. That was the purpose of a record or picture album, to hold records or pictures. They have retroactively renamed albums into album holders, and presumably would call the records that go in them "albums". The records are not albums because they only play two songs, one on each side, each only 3 to 4 minutes long. (I even have some records that are recorded on only one side. They are flat on the other.)

Albums have more than two songs. It was on that basis that they called a 33 1/3 record an album, because even only one record had 10 or 12 songs.
[nq:1]They're all described as albums that hold records, exactly what mm was looking for. Moreover, on the first page of results for "78 record album" I see half a dozen listings for empty albums.[/nq]
Yes, I can find albums, now that I know they are listed as album holders. And I can find empty albums, and will be buying a couple soon, I expect.
It's not so much that I have a problem, but that I am reporting usage. To a usage newsgroup.
It's another example of retroactive renaming, such as analog television. The difference is that analog is just an adjective modifying the original word.
In the expression "album holder" they have taken the original word, which was a noun, and pretty much turned it into an adjective, modifying the new word, holder. They didn't just add an adjective. They added a noun and made it the center of the phrase. That's worth noting.
Also, "analog television" only describes what always was. Television WAS analog, but there was no point in saying so explicitly, since it was implicit in "television".
OTOH a 78 rpm record was not an album, and the album was not an album holder. (The piece of furniture which held the record player was also an album holder.) This time, the renaming is more than being explicit about what always was. They have attempted to reach back and change the meaning of words.
[nq:1]¬R http://users.bestweb.net/~notr/magictop.html Who sneezed in my arpeggio? My beautiful arpeggio![/nq]
If you are inclined to email me
for some reason, remove NOPSAM :-)

Record album versus record album holder

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