Re "Rose is a rose is a rose"

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Could someone tell me what "Rose is a rose is a rose" means and on what occasion this funny sentence is employed. Also, teach me if we can replace the word "rose" by any other words that are being discussed.

Yamaoka Michio

Usenet · Accepted Answer

[nq:1]Could someone tell me what "Rose is a rose is a rose" means and on what occasion this funny sentence is employed. Also, teach me if we can replace the word "rose" by any other words that are being discussed.[/nq]
From Shakespeare's "Romeo and Juliet":
?Tis but thy name that is my enemy;
Thou art thyself though, not a Montague.
What?s Montague? it is nor hand, nor foot,
Nor arm, nor face, nor any other part
Belonging to a man. O! be some other name:
What?s in a name? that which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet;
So Romeo would, were he not Romeo call?d,
Retain that dear perfection which he owes
Without that title. Romeo, doff thy name;
And for that name, which is no part of thee,
Take all myself
When he writes "that which we call a rose By any other name would smell as sweet", he is saying "a rose is a rose".
You can't replace "rose" with any other word without destroying the reference, but you can say that we can call something by any name and it doesn't change what it is.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]Could someone tell me what "Rose is a rose is ... word "rose" by any other words that are being discussed.[/nq]
(Tony's discussion of "A Rose by any other name" from "Romeo & Juliet" snipped.)
Tony's discussion is worth paying attention to, if not quite responsive.

The line "Rose is a rose is a rose is a rose, is a rose" is by Gertrude Stein and appears in her poem "Sacred Emily" (1913). The poem was published in Geography and Plays (Boston: Four Seas Co., 1922) on pp. 178-188 and the line is on p. 187. This book has been reprinted by the University of Nebraska Press (1993) and the poem also appears in Vingage Books's Selected Writings of Gertrude Stein (1990).

That doesn't tell you what it means, of course. It does not mean that "a rose by any other name smells as sweet." At least one person has claimed that it means that "when all is said and done, a thing is what it is." Stein, who said, "I think in that line the rose is red for the first time in English poetry for a hundred years" seems to have had something else in mind. But before deciding that it means anything, consider the following lines also from "Sacred Emily":

Next to barber.
Next to barber bury.
Next to barber bury china.
Next to barber bury china glass.
Next to barber china and glass.
Next to barber and china.
Next to barber and hurry.
Next to hurry.
Next to hurry and glass and china.
Next to hurry and glass and hurry.
Next to hurry and hurry.
Next to hurry and hurry.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1](Tony's discussion of "A Rose by any other name" from "Romeo & Juliet" snipped.) Tony's discussion is worth paying attention ... of Nebraska Press (1993) and the poem also appears in Vingage Books's Selected Writings of Gertrude Stein (1990).[/nq]
That I didn't know. I didn't know the line had a specific history, and thought it just something that came out of Shakespeare's lines. Would you

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[nq:2](Tony's discussion of "A Rose by any other name" from ... Vingage Books's Selected Writings of Gertrude Stein (1990).[/nq]
[nq:1]That I didn't know. I didn't know the line had a specific history, and thought it just something that came out of Shakespeare's lines. Would you[/nq]
(continuing after the inadvertent "send")
assume that Stein used Shakespeare's line as a basis for her line?
[nq:2]That doesn't tell you what it means, of course. It ... Next to hurry and hurry. Next to hurry and hurry.[/nq]
Trying to figure out what is meant above makes my head hurt. Sometimes I think that poets write nonsense lines and just pretend they mean something. It gives Lit teachers something to do. They can lecture endlessly on the meaning and never be wrong because there is no right.
I can't remember the poem, but one of my English teachers in high school went on for a week on the deeper meanings and allusions of some ode. I remember asking "Why can't you just like it for the sound of it, and not try to figure it out?" He never liked me after that, but probably didn't like me very much before that.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]Could someone tell me what "Rose is a rose is ... word "rose" by any other words that are being discussed.[/nq]
[nq:1]From Shakespeare's "Romeo and Juliet": ?Tis but thy name that is my enemy; Thou art thyself though, not a Montague. ... reference, but you can say that we can call something by any name and it doesn't change what it is.[/nq]
"Rose is a rose is a rose" may or may not have any connection to Shakespeare; it's from "Sacred Emily," a poem by Gertrude Stein (1913). It meant whatever Gertrude Stein thought it should. Here's a link to a page about the woman:
http://www.geocities.com/jiji muge/isarose.html
Cece

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]From Shakespeare's "Romeo and Juliet": ?Tis but thy name that ... by any name and it doesn't change what it is.[/nq]
[nq:1]"Rose is a rose is a rose" may or may not have any connection to Shakespeare; it's from "Sacred Emily," a poem by Gertrude Stein (1913). It meant whatever Gertrude Stein thought it should.[/nq]
I know a Rose who's a rose. Maybe Gertie did too.

Anyway, the line wouldn't make much sense if it isn't resting on a Shakespearean fundament. It seems to me.

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[nq:2]From Shakespeare's "Romeo and Juliet": ?Tis but thy name that ... by any name and it doesn't change what it is.[/nq]
[nq:1]"Rose is a rose is a rose" may or may not have any connection to Shakespeare; it's from "Sacred Emily," a poem by Gertrude Stein (1913). It meant whatever Gertrude Stein thought it should. Here's a link to a page about the woman:[/nq]
Martin already posted this information. Stein's line doesn't have much meaning by itself, but considering Shakespeare's verse as the inspiration it would.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]"Rose is a rose is a rose" may or may ... should. Here's a link to a page about the woman:[/nq]
[nq:1]Martin already posted this information. Stein's line doesn't have much meaning by itself, but considering Shakespeare's verse as the inspiration it would.[/nq]
And so we move on to Dorothy Parker:
A single flow'r he sent me, since we met.
All tenderly his messenger he chose;
Deep-hearted, pure, with scented dew still wet-
One perfect rose.
I knew the language of the floweret;
"My fragile leaves," it said, "his heart enclose." Love long has taken for his amulet
One perfect rose.
Why is it no one ever sent me yet
One perfect limousine, do you suppose?
Ah no, it's always just my luck to get
One perfect rose.

John Dean
Oxford

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[nq:1]Could someone tell me what "Rose is a rose is a rose" means and onwhat occasion this funny sentence is employed. Also, teach me if we canreplace the word "rose" by any other words that are being discussed. Yamaoka Michio[/nq]
I think you can say, 'A thief is a thief is a thief,' to emphasize the fact that a thief is nothing
but a thief. I also think that you can repeat
'is a thief' indefinitely as you wish to stress
the fact a thief is a thief.
ck
tia

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]When he writes "that which we call a rose By any other name would smell as sweet", he is saying "a rose is a rose".[/nq]
There's a story told about Abraham Lincoln. When he was still practicing law, he was arguing a case against a team of attorneys who were trying to play some sort of linguistic reframing game with the facts. After court adjourned, he approached the attorneys (or perhaps they approached him, I don't remember) and the debate was continued.

Lincoln asked them, "Gentlemen, if you call a lamb's tail a leg, how many legs would it then have?"
They all agreed that a lamb would then have FIVE legs.

Lincoln disagreed, saying, "No, gentlemen, it would STILL have FOUR legs, because calling a lamb's tail a leg don't make it one."

I think he had Korzybski's "The map is not the territory" beat by many years, but I can't be certain.

Michael DeBusk, Co-Conspirator to Make the World a Better Place Did he update http://home.earthlink.net/~debu4335/ yet?

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