Rat-catcher

Question

Hello:Does "rat-catcher" also indicate a special costume?(John Last's nanny deploring the hunting event)She deplored it all, hounds, Master, huntsman and whippers-in, Miss Tendril'l niece in her mackintosh, Jock in a rat-catcher, Mrs. Ramsay in tall hat and cut-away coat oblivious of the suspicious glances of the subscribers, Tony smiling and chatting to his guests Evelyn Waugh, A Handful of Dust, p. 87Also, I am kind of surprised to see that the participants in the hunt, or at least some of them, are mentioned as "subscribers." Do they contribute financially to hunting packs/associations?Thank you.Marius Hancu

Usenet · Accepted Answer

[nq:1]She deplored it all, hounds, Master, huntsman and whippers-in, Miss Tendril'l niece in her mackintosh, Jock in a rat-catcher, Mrs. ... glances of the subscribers, Tony smiling and chatting to his guests Evelyn Waugh, A Handful of Dust, p. 87[/nq]
Yes, rat-catcher here means a special type of
(tweed) jacket. There may be a subtle distinction between a rat-catcher and a hacking jacket (another common form of the period) but I have forgotten what it might be. English society was then full of small but significant signals of social one-upmanship,
especially in costume (e.g. leaving the bottom button of a waistcoat unfastened, finishing sleeves so each ornamental button went through a real buttonhole etc.)

Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]She deplored it all, hounds, Master, huntsman and whippers-in, Miss ... guests Evelyn Waugh, A Handful of Dust, p. 87[/nq]
[nq:1]Yes, rat-catcher here means a special type of (tweed) jacket. There may be a subtle distinction between a rat-catcher and a hacking jacket (another common form of the period) but I have forgotten what it might be.[/nq]
I once purchased a sport coat with what the salesman called "hacking jacket pockets". The pockets were flapped and slanted. My other sport coats have all had flapped pockets, but none have been slanted.

Now my attention has shifted from pockets to "sport coat" vs "sports coat". And, why any jacket is described as sporting in any way. Of course, I do know that golfers used to wear jackets and golfing is thought to be a sport by some.
The attention continues to wander in looking at "jacket". A sport jacket is a semi-dress item of clothing, but "jacket" by itself suggests a windbreaker or shell. I wonder if restaurants that have signs up saying "Jackets required" would accept a windbreaker. Can you argue semantics with a maitre d'?
The wandering continues at "maitre d'"? "Maitre" is the French word for "master", and the "d'" means "of", doesn't it? So "maitre d'" is "master of", but master of what? I've never heard someone ask for the maitre d' restaurant or the maitre d' of the little podium-thing where he keeps the book that decides when you can sit.
I'm going to wander off now and let someone read this and make OY!ing noises about my command of French.
English society was then full of small
[nq:1]but significant signals of social one-upmanship, especially in costume (e.g. leaving the bottom button of a waistcoat unfastened, finishing sleeves so each ornamental button went through a real buttonhole etc.)[/nq]
Tony Cooper
Orlando FL

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]Hello: Does "rat-catcher" also indicate a special costume?[/nq]
Not a particular costume, but what OED defines as "Unconventional hunting dress". Another example they cite is:

1928 J. B. Thomas Hounds & Hunting 254 Rat-catcher-referring to oneinformally dressed when hunting.
And:

1930 Field 29 Nov. 764/1 The self-respecting beginner will want to beturned out properly, in the right 'rat-catcher style'. 1933 A. Powell From View to Death viii. 200 Both sons were in ratcatcher and Torquil wore a canary-coloured waistcoat. 19
[nq:1] (John Last's nanny deploring the hunting event) She deplored it all, hounds, Master, huntsman and whippers-in, Miss Tendril'l niece ... in the hunt, or at least some of them, are mentioned as "subscribers." Do they contribute financially to hunting packs/associations?[/nq]
Of course. You don't think the British go out and kill small animals for free? (Well, actually, we do mostly. But some kinds of ripping mammals to bits involve financial outlay.)
Here are the current rates for one of our posher Hunts: http://www.quornhunt.co.uk/pages/subscription.php3

Seems a bit pricy for something you can get arrested doing, but I suppose they once said that about picking up prostitutes.
John Dean
Oxford

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]Yes, rat-catcher here means a special type of (tweed) jacket.[/nq]
[nq:1]I once purchased a sport coat with what the salesman called "hacking jacket pockets". The pockets were flapped and ... restaurant or the maitre d' of the little podium-thing where he keeps the book that decides when you can sit.[/nq]
Maître d'Hotel. Originally the manager of the whole hotel but more recently the guy in charge of the dining room.
I haven't heard Maître d'Hotel or Maître d' used in the UK. Maybe I don't frequent sufficiently posh establishments. I always thought the abbreviation was particularly USAn.

John Dean
Oxford

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]Also, I am kind of surprised to see that the ... mentioned as "subscribers." Do they contribute financially to hunting packs/associations?[/nq]
[nq:1]Of course. You don't think the British go out and kill smallanimals for free? (Well, actually, we do mostly. But ... bit pricy for something you can get arrested doing, but I suppose they once said that about picking up prostitutes.[/nq]
Usage note: the "cap" is the fee you're expected to cough up at the meet before setting out. I assume the idea is the Secretary went round holding his cap out to collect.
Tony: a sports coat is a tweed coat worn not for ball-games or the pole-vault, but for shooting and fishing. And, indeed, ratting. This is why you, as a man of some style, wouldn't wear one in Town. And for formal shoots you would, of course, wear a tweed suit rather than a tweed coat and flannels; the suit should preferably be old and smelly get one of the outdoor staff to wear it for a couple of years before donning it yourself.

Mike.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]I once purchased a sport coat with what the salesman ... he keeps the book that decides when you can sit.[/nq]
[nq:1]Maître d'Hotel.[/nq]
Oy!
[nq:1]Originally the manager of the whole hotel but more recently the guy in charge of the dining room. I haven't heard Maître d'Hotel or Maître d' used in the UK. Maybe I don't frequent sufficiently posh establishments. I always thought the abbreviation was particularly USAn.[/nq]
I'd always be stuck as to how to write the abbreviated form. Don't you think that it has some sort of mental resonance with "MC"? Maybe not.

I'm not sure about usage in the UK, either. I'm accused of Americanisms on every now and then, so maybe I'd use it and some'd understand it, but they wouldn't use it themselves.
The podium business seems more obvious in the States, but that could just be skewed experience. Oh, and ditto your comment re posh establishments.

Andrew Gwilliam
To email me, replace "bottomless pit" with "silverhelm"

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]Does "rat-catcher" also indicate a special costume?[/nq]
[nq:1]Not a particular costume, but what OED defines as "Unconventional hunting dress".[/nq]
That doesn't seem to be consistent with Marius' quote.
[nq:2](John Last's nanny deploring the hunting event) She deplored it ... Evelyn Waugh, A Handful of Dust, p. 87 [/nq]
[nq:1]Seems a bit pricy for something you can get arrested doing, but I suppose they once said that about picking up prostitutes.[/nq]
I'm a bit loathe to depress you regarding the rate you might pay should you wish to avail yourself of the latter.

Andrew Gwilliam
To email me, replace "bottomless pit" with "silverhelm"

Usenet · Answer

Sorry I don't reply in the appropriate place in the thread, but my news server doesn't bring over all the articles, many of them I read only at Google.
[nq:2]Does "rat-catcher" also indicate a special costume?[/nq]
[nq:1]Not a particular costume, but what OED defines as "Unconventional hunting dress". Another example they cite is: 1928 J. B. Thomas Hounds & Hunting 254 Rat-catcher-referring to one informally dressed when hunting.[/nq]
Does this mean someone informally dressed is only allowed to hunt for rats, and not for foxes?:-)
[nq:1]Here are the current rates for one of our posher Hunts: http://www.quornhunt.co.uk/pages/subscription.php3 Seems a bit pricy for something you can get arrested doing, but I suppose they once said that about picking up prostitutes.[/nq]
Now, how's the fox hunting these days in UK?
Totally outlawed? I heard about the dispute, but didn't follow up on it.

Thank you for all these details.
Marius Hancu

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]I once purchased a sport coat with what the salesman ... he keeps the book that decides when you can sit.[/nq]
[nq:1]Maître d'Hotel. Originally the manager of the whole hotel but more recently the guy in charge of the dining room. ... d' used in the UK. Maybe I don't frequent sufficiently posh establishments. I always thought the abbreviation was particularly USAn.[/nq]
It may well be, but infectious. I've seen it often in print, but how is it pronounced? Maître as in French, d' as in dee?
Paul
In bocca al Lupo!

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]Hello: Does "rat-catcher" also indicate a special costume?[/nq]
[nq:1]Not a particular costume, but what OED defines as "Unconventional hunting dress". Another example they cite is: 1928 J. B. ... A. Powell From View to Death viii. 200 Both sons were in ratcatcher and Torquil wore a canary-coloured waistcoat. 19[/nq]
I tried to find a web page with a summary or full text of The Man in Ratcatcher, by Sapper, but no luck. I did find a second-hand copy of the book that includes it for sale, with an admission of 'some foxing', which seemed redundant.

Paul
In bocca al Lupo!

Rat-catcher

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