Rank, Tie, Remain, Hold - strange use- no pres. continuous?

Question

Hello all.I am happy to have found this forum.  However I think I have got such a hard question to ask. As far as I know words: remain,hold, rank, tie aren' t state verbs but they act as if they were. I hardly can find words such as these in present continuous for - even though they aren' t state verbs. I will give you examples in what sort of context they aren' t used in continuous form:- Federer holds the record of winning 12 trophies in one season.- Haas ranks eight. But he will move if Raonic loses this round.- Federer - Djokovic rivalry is seventh. Nadal - Fognini ties for eigh- There remain five games to play this year.In all these sentences are holds, ranks, ties, remain used in present simple. The thing which doesn't make feel good is that I have such a no idea what the context would allow the possibility of using present continuous tense. Originally I looked at those situations as something temporary - he is eight the days but it may change soon so present continuous would be perfect - the same would be for other examples. The fact that there are five games to play this year is temporary as well. Why are those words used mainly with present simple? I am afraid that if I don't find out how it works I will never learn English that well.We'll that's it. I think you are my last chance to learn this. I have already asked my teacher but she didn't know how to explain this. I will really appreciate any kind of advice - thank you.Dominik

CalifJim · Accepted Answer

Dominik6As far as I know words: remain, hold, rank, tie aren' t state verbs ...

I would say they are verbs that can't (normally) be used in continuous tenses.

I don't think there is an exhaustive list of all state verbs, is there? Native speakers just try to make sentences with a verb using the continuous tenses, and when none of them sound right, they say that it must be one of those verbs that doesn't occur in continuous tenses. We don't need a list. I know that doesn't help you, but you've done something quite similar, and it looks like it worked.

A couple of those verbs can occur in the continuous with specific meanings.

We're holding [a party / a meeting / a charity event] next week. (arranging it, inviting people)
The teacher is ranking the students by their scores on their last English exam. (determining the rank of)

CJ

Cool Breeze · Answer

People just use some verbs in continuous tenses and they don't use some verbs in continuous tenses. Some verbs are used in continuous tenses in some meanings and some contexts while some verbs are never used in continuous tenses. There are no rules for all verbs and all contexts. Besides, usage changes all the time. If you are trying to find a rule for everything in a language, you will certainly fail. This is particularly true about English as there has never been a language academy in any English-speaking country.

CB

Dominik6 · Answer

Thank you

First of all I am sorry for my English in previous post. I typed it on my mobile phone and probably didn't check it that properly - see some strange mistakes.

Back to my question.

Unfortunately nothing is as blanket as I would wish for it to be. I would not have continued to looking after advice if I hadn't found the following sentences.

- "Good call on Ryan from Neighbors so far. In an online popularity poll he is ranking second in these early days. Ryan is first and Claire is third."

- "He finished second in both of his finals, which means he is tying with Oliver and Lee on points."

Here are used tying and ranking in present continuous. That's what makes me feel uncomfortable. I have also asked two more people and one of them would use "ranking" e.g. during F1 grand prix race but he would never use "tying" - he found it strange. To make it more complicated the second guy would use both of these words in continuous words to emphasise "in these days". However on another forum one native speaker didnt like "tying" and recommend that I use "tied" .

Because I really want to know the answer I asked Carl Bialik ( writer for FiveThirtyEight- in one of his article I found these words) what's his opinion on this and whether he would ever you those words in continuous form. His answer was that he would never use them in continuous form. As you can see it is difficult to for a non- native speaker to understand how to use these words.

Do you think that if I create a sort of rule that every time I use these words in present simple - I cant make a mistake?

Cool Breeze · Answer

Dominik6Do you think that if I create a sort of rule that every time I use these words in present simple - I cant make a mistake?

I have no opinion about that, except that it's risky to say that something is always right or wrong.

CB

CalifJim · Answer

Dominik6he is ranking second in these early days.

That's the use of the continuous to convey a temporary situation. It says "in these early days", so the writer isn't saying this is a permanent situation. Things could change.

Dominik6he is tying with Oliver and Lee on points.

This is the same usage. However, like one of your other advisers, I would use "tied".

Dominik6Do you think that if I create a sort of rule ... ?

No. There is no rule.

CJ

Dominik6 · Answer

When I say: Federer leads 22- 21 in their head to head bilance or Federer ranks eight = here we have two temporary situations as well. He might well not be eight after next tournament or maybe later. Or he won't be leading in their head to head bilance when his oponent wins the following match - however it can happen next tournament or in a few years.

Dominik6 · Answer

Hello again. I hope it is not against rules to post two posts in a row but I would like to ask you one more thing.

Thanks to you I see there is not such a rule for using these words in continuous form. However would it be possible to write me examples where you would present continuous tense with words: remain, rank(position 3rd etc.), tie (score 2 players have the same time), hold (position or whatever) and lead (6:4 e.g. in tennis- score)? As a non native speaker and somebody who is still in the process of learning...I just don't have enough feel when I can use these words in a continuous form without worries. I often see lead is used in continuous form however rank (in meaning of position ) is rarely used. How temporary that situation must be so that I could use that continuous form- approximately?

It means a world to me to know how to use those words.

CalifJim · Answer

Dominik6would it be possible to write me examples where you would present continuous tense with words:

Look them up on a corpus like COCA. An easy site to use is fraze.it. Enter "is remaining", "is ranking", "is tying", "is holding", and "is leading".

Basically, you're just asking me to do this for you because it is how I would find examples myself. So let's just cut out the middle man and have you do it yourself.

CJ

Rank, Tie, Remain, Hold - strange use- no pres. continuous?

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